You can always find anecdotes to support pretty much any position. Anecdotes are a weak form of evidence because they're often "one-offs". Take a step back and think about what you're arguing for here - disrespecting the flag and the country during the national anthem. It's a losing argument for you. There are other forums to protest and people rightfully are pissed when this is jammed in their faces during a sporting event.
Yes, forcing people to bow and pledge before a flag is really rather troubling. Maybe more Fascist than Communist, but it is certainly what authoritarian nations do. Bow/pledge before the flag, put your country before everything else, that kind of crazed nationalism that never ends up doing good for anyone. I remember in school we had people that didn't observe the pledge for religious reasons, it was fine, no one really cared. It's fine for me, if someone doesn't want to do the pledge or stand during the anthem I honestly don't care.
Oh, yes, you are correct. “You have people who are very fine people on both sides.” There, he called them very fine people, much better.
Also hilarious how in 2013 he was telling our current president that he shouldn't be worried about the affairs of an NFL Owner... Stop defending this man, it just makes you look foolish.
It's fine for me, if someone doesn't want to do the pledge or stand during the anthem I honestly don't care.[/QUOTE] All I asked was do you think children should be taught the pledge of allegiance and the traditions of respecting the flag. I guess that was a no. As a veteran of 20 years service I feel differently obviously. But, I respect others having different ideas of respect and values, so this isn't an argument or debate. I was just curious on how others felt.
I guess I think it's unrelated to the NFL thing and a distraction from the debate. As a father of young (and less young) children, I would tell them to say the pledge as they are taught, but if they ever came to me with a principled objection to saying it, I'd tell them not to say it. I stopped saying the pledge in high school because I objected at the time to the way we send soldiers to die in foolhardy wars. Around that same time (though I didn't know her yet), my wife stopped saying it because she would pledge her allegiance to no one but God, and certainly not to an inanimate flag that's treated as an idol. It seems to me now that I'm old that we put too much weight into what we think we're saying with the pledge. We agonize a lot about how it describes our country (are we 'under God'? Do we really deliver justice for all?), and don't think much about what we're promising. The promise is about as basic as you can get -- essentially that you recognize the legitimacy of the country and its republican form of government and will try to preserve it. I don't think the pledge is really asking you to audit and affirm all the characterizations of our country. I see them now more like aspirational goals -- that we preserve the union, that we are god-fearing (on which I agree with critics, this should not have been included), providing liberty and justice for everyone. I don't really like saying the pledge, but I can sign on to basically recognizing the legitimacy of our republican government.
There is no value in symbolic 'fast food patriotism'. It provides no practical value. It's better to teach kids that the best way to serve their country is by learning a discernible skill and contribute to the gdp. Is it a coinsidence that people who value so much in these trivial symbolic gestures such as standing for the anthem and reciting the pledge every morning are also the ones who think everything this nation does in infallible? That type of unhealthy obsession is what leads to brainwashing and restriction of critical thinking.
Actually, everyone has different values, and you can't put everyone who stands for the anthem or recites the pledge in the same category. It's not unhealthy if you really feel pride, and do it as respect. It isn't unhealthy if you feel that way for pride from serving your country. It is unhealthy if you feel forced, don't do it for the right reasons, or have no understanding of what it means to do it. An unhealthy obsession to one might seem healthy to others. Some may think it is really unhealthy to idolize an athlete just because they have athletic skills, but not for who they are or how they treat others.
Did I say everyone who stands for the pledge has a unhealthy obsession? No. But there are many who have a unhealthy obsession. You can tell by those who do when they are triggered by those who don't feel it is as important. And yes, it's a common tactic by actual fascist regimes to make their children recite pledges of loyalty from grade school to higher education. Why do you think that is? 'fast food patriotism' is nothing more than virtue signaling now a days. If you don't do it, you are unAmerican. There is no value behind it. You want to help your country? Contribute to the gdp by obtaining a discernable skill and avoid the prison system. It's unhealthy because there is a connection between obsession over the pledge, flag and anthem and a lack of critical thinking skills related to accurately assessing the state of the nation.
Guess they don't realize that booing during the anthem is way more disrespectful than anything the players are doing.
Is this guy a real American or disrespectful as well? http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...rotests/ar-AAss7iQ?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
The pledge of allegiance isn't good manners. It's an indoctrination. Instead of trying to bainwash children, why not teach them the history and the values we have as a country and then they can understand what the flag symbolizes and not just do some stupid routine that you think is good manners. It's the difference between empty repetition and knowledge. As a result of that knowledge, you understand that justice for all is a core value and fake patriotism isn't. When an entire segment of society feels they are denied justice every day that should concern you a lot more than empty symbolism.
Why do conservitives have higher standards for acting adult like for our professional athletes than the President of the United States.
yes, because we all know the best place to get life coaching and political advice is from reality tv show stars - people who brag about sexually assaulting women, spread racism, give props to nazis and insult POW's. insulting POW's, gold star families and comparing our country to the murderous russian regime are winning positions? donald trump does it because he is a narcissistic jack-ass. he probably does not actually think POW's are not heroic b/c they were captured, but he is such a child and he was so desperate to make fun of john mccain that he invoked POW's to do so...in a way, that makes it even worse. he slandered POW's just because he was butthurt over john mccain.
