It's funny how some of the same people who go on about "defending the integrity of America's democracy" when it comes to wanting war over Russians hacking the DNC are some of the same people who are strongly against voter ID laws that would protect the integrity of America's democracy by ensuring that people are who they say they are when they cast a ballot. Apparently the only threat to America's democracy is if DNC dirty laundry gets leaked or if there are foreign troll farms competing with the domestic troll farms paid for by the political parties. Apparently that's the REAL threat to Democracy.
I agree with you here. In the current state, one doofus president cannot undo the deterrent effect of NATO. Maybe you can say the robustness and resilience of the NATO alliance gives Trump the latitude to do some irresponsible stuff, knowing he won't be able to really jump the curb. His attitude probably will result in more defense spending by other NATO nations who have to prepare for the possibility of waging a war without the US. Why people get their panties in a wad though is trying to read minds and predict the future. We don't know how serious Trump is about his hedges. Maybe he intends to leave NATO altogether. Maybe he will actually oppose adhering to Article 5 when the chips are down and it is invoked. And how will other nations react to us? And NATO members don't know and they have to make decisions that cover the risks in scenarios where they can count on the US and when they can't. All this risk and uncertainty is costly to the USA and to European members. I think that is where the present day damage is. We have to be prepared for a war without our allies. Our allies have to be prepared for a war without us. We can't presume in all scenarios that we have access to our bases in Europe. They can't presume to have access to our tech and expertise. All competencies are going to have to be redundant on both sides of the Atlantic because there is an increased risk we won't be allied in the future. That is a whole lot of money everybody is going to spend on military preparedness that they cannot spend on the welfare of their citizens.
Da Comrade. Putin has America's best interests at heart. That is why they targeted the DNC. Because wants to save America from the DNC. What a good man.
I think it's far more likely that the EU would eventually try to leave NATO once they build the EU military that they have been planning. I just don't see how scolding NATO allies for consistently failing to live up to their obligations is a bad thing, neither is scolding Germany for their deals with Russia that put them at a tactical disadvantage. Honestly those things strengthen NATO, not weaken it.
It is a local dispute. Whats shtick. No one even cares about it anymore. Putin isn't operating the death star
I will tell you again. Nobody is asking for war. Either you can stop pretending that's the case, or we won't discuss this anymore. I'm not going to keep correcting you for trying to claim anyone is asking for war with Russia. I've explained how it is possible and to stand up to Russia and not get into a war over it. There has been a video of Macron from France doing exactly that posted on this thread. France and Russia aren't currently at war. It was possible for Trump to say. The United States looks forward to working with Russia in wiping out ISIS and other terrorist organizations. We look forward to working with Russia on making progress toward N. Korean denuclearization. But we know for a fact that Russia tried to interfere with our democracy in 2016, and we won't tolerate that in 2018 or the future. Mr. Putin put an end to the cyber-attacks and let's work together for the betterment of both of our people. If you believe that is asking or desiring war, then you have no real grasp of even a basic level of how diplomacy has worked for centuries. I've explained that to you before, but you keep throwing it out there as if it makes it true. I'm not going to do it again. I'm one of the few people who will still engage with you on this board. But I'm not going to continue if keep acting like I'm asking for something that I'm not when I've already explained to you and you've seen real-life examples of people standing up to Russia and the way it doesn't end up in a war. You are also ignoring much of what Russia did. They also scanned and probed state voting machines. They tried to hack into state voter registration lists. Secondly, the DNC is comprised of American citizens. What the Russians leaked from them or the fact that it was the DNC doesn't mean it wasn't an attack on our democracy. I understand why you would feel the need to dishonestly minimize what they did, but it doesn't work.
You can keep saying that no one is asking for war, but you guys n never really say what you are looking to have happen other than you seem to want saber rattling and insults to be lobbed towards the Russians.....which is the path towards war. I explained to you how hostility towards Russia during the Obama administration led by Hillary Clinton led to increased hostility from Russia including the attempted tampering in 2016....and you seem to want more of that. Also, you point out that we want to work with Russia to make progress in North Korea....but you want the US to insult and threaten Russia....how would one lead to the other? I'm not ignoring any of what Russia did, I'm just focusing on what they actually succeeded in doing, which was hack a private organization and leak information that embarrassed them....that's not really "attacking our democracy", it's attacking a private organization in America, which is bad, but nowhere near as bad as some are trying to make it seem. Now sure if there were compromised voting machines or whatever, I'd look at this as a much more serious issue, but in reality the only thing that happened is that some of the shitty things those in the DNC were saying behind closed doors went public.....and that wasn't even a top 10 reason why Hillary lost the election. I understand why you would feel the need to dishonestly blow what they did out of proportion, but it doesn't work.
No one is saying the things you accuse people of saying, yet the things you say are devoid of reality. You really should take several steps back.
I've not only told one thing Trump could do. I gave the exact words that he could have used. Attempting to compromise the voting machines is also serious. Attempted murder is a crime and murder is also a crime. One is obviously worse, but we should be on guard to prevent either.
You are just assuming that those things weren't said in private and I'm not sure that's a safe assumption. When Putin is denying it at the press conference, it's an act of aggression to call him a liar. That aggression would only lead to more aggression so it's not really worth it given that it doesn't really matter if Putin acknowledges what he did, what matters is what he does in the future. Sure, probing the voting machines to see if they can be compromised is serious, but it's nowhere near as serious as you guys are making it out to be. That's something that keeps you on your toes when it comes to security, not something that requires an act of aggression by the US. Honestly if it wasn't for the DNC having such laughably poor security and getting hacked, you guys wouldn't care about this at all. It would barely be noteworthy outside of the relevant agencies that fight against this type of thing. You guys are pretending that this was something on the level of 9-11 or Pearl Harbor, and that's simply not the case. The US democracy was not "hacked", the system worked exactly as it was supposed to and no outside influences had any measurable effect. Is it important to make sure that remains the case? Of course, but there's honestly no crisis. Have the DNC put some money into cyber security and the shitty things they say behind the scenes will remain private. You can't stop troll farms, but they really aren't effective. The voting machines easily stood up to any attack. Again, you guys never seem to care about the integrity of the democratic process when it comes to voter ID, but have the DNC get hacked and it's the end of the world....and before you talk about how they did more than that, the hack on the DNC was the only successful thing they did outside of the troll farms.
He ssid "shtick" I questioned it What i don't need is for you to respond for him. Im tired of your lectures you aint anything to be lecturing to begin with. I post serious thoughts. I don't come in threads to pass judgement. Follow that lead or keep it to yourself
You live in a delusional world. "voter id" is just a Republican ploy to suppress Democrat voters. BtG, are this intelectually dishonest in the rest of your life?
The damage trump is doing will take years to fix... here's a Brookings Institute discussion on NATO...
The Good Comrade is simple following orders. Rocket River In Russia you do not follow orders .. . orders follow you
I think that is my most major problem . . . .. One president can undo the work of the previous 10 ., . .. in just 2 years yet They can never do anything positive in 2 yrs Rocket River
