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To win the 2020 election Democrats need to...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by FranchiseBlade, Dec 15, 2019.

  1. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Biden's (or Bernie's) VP will highly likely be not only a woman, but a woman of color. Scratch everybody you're thinking of off. Dems play identity politics, like it or not. Kamala would have been a perfect fit for Biden, she kind of attacked him pretty hard though, but perhaps her ducking out of the race early was a play for VP.
     
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  2. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    I could see that. I’ve always liked her as a candidate
     
  3. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    I think you are , to use your own words - a little too bullish on Booker.

    No he hasn't resonated with voters and wouldn't make any of my top 5 tickets.

    I see him as the guy who has "followed the fleet" to the left on just about every topic. That's no way to set yourself apart from the others.
    The instance where he brought back two women who had been deported by a court in El Paso , really bothered me. He took it upon himself to overrule a courts decision …. as a political stunt ?

    Any combination of Klobuchar , Buttigieg or Biden works for me. Hell , I might take a flyer on Yang too. His idea of printing money might help the debt issues (seriously sarcasm).
     
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  4. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    What you’re saying makes sense about labeling, and I understand your frustration.

    I just take issue with fake lessons about what we should have learned from 2016.
     
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  5. FrontRunner

    FrontRunner Member

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    Booker makes a lot of sense for Biden.

    Which brings me to what I want to say next...

    I spoke rather bluntly in a previous post in an attempt to "be real" and to express opinions I've heard others share, without giving any real thought to the feelings of others here on this board. I'm sorry for that and I hope I didn't offend anyone.
     
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  6. joshuaao

    joshuaao Member

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    Bernie is the Dem candidate that best channels the message of hope. Pete is the candidate best able to explain his policies in a way that make them seem attainable.
     
  7. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    It seems the Democrats are kinda stuck between moderate and uber left. You have the Bernie/Warren everything is free and someone else is going to pay for it crowd vs. the more mature moderate Democrats who realize who the someone else is who will be paying for the free stuff. I am not sure there is any other choice than to let the chips fall where they may and hope the moderates support an uber left candidate or the youth support a more moderate candidate depending on who is nominated.
     
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  8. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Bernie’s platform could be the answer but it wouldn’t be because of the youth vote. That only drives up the popular vote. It would be because of message discipline in protectionist trade policy that could win back Penn, Wisc, and Michigan.

    Bernie could also have the message discipline around immigration if he found a way to add it to his primary platform talking points. The Dems have to have an answer to Trumps naked racism that poses as immigration policy. I would say about 40% of the folks that care about immigration enough to vote for Trump on that issue, just believe simply that immigration depresses the labor market. For those voters (not to win back racists) there needs to be a clear answer on immigration.

    I believe the Dems have good policy in their immigration reform proposals, they just suck at messaging, and too often just go after the naked racism instead of reframing the issue to talk to that 40% of blue collar voters in the Midwest they need to win back.

    If the Dem candidate can do that, they should wipe the floor with Trump, but it won’t be that easy with so little time, and with all the noise Trump will make the next 9 months. So I agree with Moore that Bernie or Warren could actually be the best bet to win back the White House but not for the reasons he thinks.
     
  9. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Pro Trump

    • Incumbent President
    • Controls the daily news cycle
    • Republicans are great at messaging
    • Trump is great at marketing himself, world class even
    • Job creation has continued at the same pace as his predecessor
    • Unemployment is very low
    • Stock market is trading high

    Con Trump

    • Trump is not good at his job and is unaware of this
    • Trump kills the TPP and then starts a trade war with China
    • Farm bankruptcies are on the rise
    • Farm bailout costs twice as much as the Big 3 Autos bailout
    • Big 3 Auto sales are down due to steel tariffs
    • Trump's tax returns will expose him as a fraud, fake billionaire
    • Trump helped the every-man by giving the top 1% a huge tax break
    • Trump wanted to fix Obama-care by replacing it with nothing
    • Trump lost a battle of wills with Nancy Pelosi on the longest government shutdown
    • Trump got out of the Paris Climate Agreement and renegotiated nothing
    • Trump got out oF the Iranian Nuclear Deal and renegotiated nothing
    • Trump keeps threatening to get out of Nato
    • Trump is ignorant of how government actually works, after 4 years of being in charge
    • Trump has a casual disregard of laws and his oath of office
    • Impeachment
    • Trump carries Putin's water
    • Kim Jong-un is openly mocking Trump
    • Dems showed up strong in the off-year 2018 elections, which they normally do not do
    • Dems will likely turn out strong in 2020, especially the youth vote
    • No Dem Presidential candidate is hated like Hillary was
     
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  10. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    This is true sans one point; Most of the candidates floated to the top briefly. The 'powers that be' allowed each one to become a front runner, long enough to expose their absurdity. Trump (much like Tulsi Gabbard) stayed on the sidelines sniping each candidate. Eventually the Republicans were left with Trump as the last fool standing. Again, Republicans unite around their candidate, regardless. I am not a fan of that ideology, which is one of many reasons I have trouble supporting Republicans.

    No they are not. Not even close.

    The DNC should not be deciding their candidate, however they should curb the absurdity. Examples are Sanders "socialize everything" and Betos "we will come take your guns from you by force" is very very bad for the Democratic Party.

    By clowns, I am speaking from a liberal view. Your party is not taking them serious. For a party who prides itself on diversity and trying to win over the young vote, your top 3 currently are old white people who are largely out of touch with reality.

    The democrats can do two things to really help pull the moderate vote. The first is to focus on the ECONOMY first and foremost.
    The second is to compromise; Moderates dont want to hear FREE. They want to hear affordable. They are not stupid and they know damn good and well nothing is free. They did not spend the last decade or two paying off all their debt and saving for retirement only to hear "we are going to tax even more so the next generation can have it for free". What they want to hear is "We see the struggle you went through. We want to make it better for your kids".
    Instead of a $1000 for every adult (one of the dumbest ideas I've heard honestly), perhaps lower the bar and offer a progressive reimbursement for utilities if you make under something like 50k.
     
  11. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    This is exactly the disconnect progressive democrats have. Progressive democrats want a token (for VP). Moderates want the most competent person.
     
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  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    First thing the Dems should do to win back the presidency & the Senate is to not listen to Trumpers critique of everything Democrats do wrong. Some of it can be insightful to think about, but its wasted dead air space. The critique of dems is mostly not true and propagated talking points from Rush & Fox so-called News. The Dems just need to do a better job of MESSAGING what is true to cut through that straight up BS.

    With Trumpers there is always an ominous "THEY" or an expressed superpowerful DNC fueled by the Clintons, Soros, etc. that makes all the decisions against the will of "The People".... this is garbage. If the DNC "superpowers" made the decisions Kamala Harris would be at the top of the ticket right now. She's the one that the Hillary Donor class courted 2 years ago, and pegged her as the best candidate to build up.

    Biden and Sanders at the top of the ticket are two candidates that the elite donors would not feel good about for obvious reasons. The Reason why they do survive though is because of their base of voters who know and trust them. The youth/white younger liberal vote keeps shifting from Kamala, Warren, Pete, and whoever is next. However, eventually all of the white liberal voters, and the voters from either Biden's or Bernies camp will eventually unite under one of the two. I think at this point, Biden's nomination is his to lose because of the strength of his base which is a combination of blue collar voters, and older African Americans who are a powerhouse in the dem nomination process.

    If there is anything to feel good about with voting Dem its that its nomination process really is one of the few places in our democracy that African Americans really hold a good amount of voting power. We should feel encouraged by that, and listen to what they have to say about how the party should coalesce around ideas & policy.

    Far too often we care WAAYYYYY too much about what ignorant Trump voters have to say about our party, and continue to ignore whose opinion we really should be paying attention to. Their support of Biden and his policies shouldn't be taken lightly as much as people like Michael Moore want to (rightfully) give Bernies platform.
     
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  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Who is trying to appeal to moderates before their own base?

    I think the real mistake is knowing who the actual base is.
     
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Like Trump doesn't make a fool of himself on stage.

    And Biden has a much better track record in debates and he would only have to be debating one person.

    You seem to forget everything Trump has said for some reason.
     
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  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Just because you lean a certain way does not mean you are a not moderate and being unbiased does not make you a moderate.

    You can lean to one side and not like what the candidate you lean too is doing.

    The data does not back up your point at all.
     
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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  17. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Biden also does not have the energizing hate that Hillary had.

    Which counts for a lot.
     
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  18. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    It might have then, but I feel people that hated Hillary, hate all Democrats/Libs and are super passionate about keeping Trump to make Libs miserable. The difference might be that not as many Democrats and progressives have such a dislike of Biden and might still be able to stomach voting for him where the wouldn't vote for Hillary.
     
  19. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Truth. You are fooling yourself if you think those who hated Hillary with a passion wont easily be convinced that Biden is just as bad as Hillary by Nov 2020.

    The difference in Biden's initial support is about the Dem voting base more than it is about the Trumpers. I see focus groups all the time about Trump voters, and it just drives me crazy. Why the F aren't we listening to the base that really matters now during the primary season which is obviously pointing heavily at early support for Biden? The African American vote. Why isn't the media doing all these opinion pieces and focus groups that they do for the Trump base for African Americans? Seems to me its the most important voices for THE DEMOCRATS to listen to.

    Do I understand the support for Biden fully? No I cannot say with confidence, but there is obviously something there that needs to be paid attention to so we do not suppress the most powerful part of our electorate that was the primary reason why Obama won two terms.
     
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  20. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Never said the bold, the bold isn't my point.

    The point is you can't appeal to 'Moderates' because they can be placed anywhere on the political spectrum. The data DOES back up that point.
     

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