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Starting Pitching

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Tuk88, May 29, 2019.

  1. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    You don’t think Luhnow would rather have Morton paired with Verlander and Cole, with Tucker in LF, Shopping for a bat (if Tucker, Kemp, White, Straw all floundered) than his current situation (solid lineup but desperate for starting pitching)?
     
  2. MrBear1

    MrBear1 Contributing Member

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    Morton wanted to pitch in Florida
     
  3. AznH-TownFan

    AznH-TownFan Member

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    And Morton was coming off shoulder injury. Most thought he was done and not worth paying him. I’m sure at least 75 % of astros fans in this forum are surprised at what Morton has done this year.
     
  4. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Brantley has been one of, if not the, best signings of the past free agency period

    Luhnow does NOT regret that signing in any way
     
  5. AstrosRockets1818

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    Agreed. His contract is pure robbery compared to others in the MLB.
     
  6. SemisolidSnake

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    No. Not at all. The bats last year were a real problem and upcoming losses in the team were also a problem. He got us a consistent, high-level batter in Brantley, and consistency is the absolute key the Astros lineup needs. He got us a stable catcher. We still need a solid backup, but still, catcher was a major problem last year as we all know. And we needed a utility guy, and he got us Diaz.

    He lost three starters, two to contracts and one to surgery. Keuchel and Morton were too high priced for this risk profiles. Morton in terms of injury and season longevity; Keuchel in terms of performance. He got Miley, who's been a great acquisition, and there were a good historical reasons to presume that McHugh could Peacock could hold their own as 4 and 5. Not blow people away, but keep things stable. In fact, that should've actually worked out decently for the overall, since both those guys got moved out of the starting role into the bullpen last year. That has not panned out.

    I have no doubt Luhnow's looking to deal with this pitching issue, and I have no doubt he's never stopped looking for options and felt content.
     
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  7. Major

    Major Member

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    Agree - and we've gained a game on the Twins and Yankees over the last 10 days. We're not in some kind of freefall.

    The 4th and 5th starters are pretty irrelevant to the playoffs, and really to me, it's irrelevant if we're generally sacrificing those games for a while. But I do think the legitimate concern is the 2017 scenario, where the bullpen was heavily taxed when Fiers was carrying our injured pitching, and by the time the playoffs rolled around, everyone seemed ineffective even though they weren't necessarily overused in August/September. It's hard to say what the real cause was, but it's fair to wonder whether the toll of overuse midseason was a problem down the line. We've already seen a lot of cracks recently with the bullpen, whether it's overuse or something else, and the more of these games where we have starters going 2-3 innings, the bigger the issue could become.

    We don't need any of kind of ace pitching, but we need guys who can eat some innings reliably, even if done poorly. This is also something that was missed in the "we can lose Keuchel and Morton, no problem" thing of the offseason - it ate a lot at our depth, and our team was unusually healthy last year. Those two + McCullers covered 500 reliable & predictable innings last year.
     
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  8. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Morton playing well probably makes Luhnow wish he would have done something to create room/save money to sign Morton. I highly doubt Luhnow wishes the way he created room/saved money to sign Morton was not signing Brantley.
     
  9. raining threes

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    Agreed, we missed that and when combined with McHugh not working out as a starter, Peacock,Whitley being injured has put the team where it is. Hopefully Luhnow can trade for a guy like Ray and Peacock gets healthy then the rotation will be fine and Correa being back will be huge.

    They need to tread water for a couple of weeks and only having a 5.5 game lead is going to put alot of pressure on JV,Cole,Miley until the end of the month.
     
  10. Major

    Major Member

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    Absolutely true - but to be fair, you could argue that Morton has been of the few even better signings and at a position of higher need (especially next year). Brantley, of course, is a bit less risky from an age and health perspective, though he has his own share of some health problems in his past.
     
  11. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    On losing Morton, LMJ, and Keuchel...Astros lead AL in starter innings and are on pace to win 100 games. Astros depth problem this year is most related to the depth sucking and McHugh falling apart. Peacock isnt dead to my knowledge. Astros appear down one starter long term if not addressed and that should be addressed within 2 weeks.

    Astros pitcher health seems normal to me. If anything, Astros have been lucky as JV and Cole are the only opening day starters that mattered a lot, and they have been healthy. JV and Cole are beasts. I have a hard time getting discouraged about starters as long as those two guys are healthy. On relievers, no matter what happens with other starters, it is on Hinch to get Pressly and Osuna to the playoffs in good condition.
     
  12. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

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    I understand not signing Morton. They didn't want to risk tying up $15M for someone they didn't have confidence in to last until the end of the season, much less perform well in the postseason. Morton did neither last year. Now imagine being required to tie up $30M for TWO seasons. That's a non starter. The Devil Rays literally have the lowest payroll in baseball, they could afford to take the risk.

    What I don't fully understand is why they didn't re-sign Keuchel for the prorated amount, especially if they're rumored to be going after other left-handers (ie Bumgarner, Robbie Ray). The Yankees are very right-handed heavy, but they actually fare better vs righties, and Keuchel has one of the best records against them, so there goes that theory. With the way Keuchel is pitching, and with half a season of rest, we wouldn't have even needed a trade. Of course, maybe the FO didn't think he still had it - we'll see the rest of the season, but that was another head scratcher for me.
     
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  13. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    How do you know they didn't try signing Keuchel and he just preferred to move on?
     
  14. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

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    I don't. I didn't say they didn't try. It'd just be nice to know the reason why Keuchel didn't sign. The Astros were never mentioned among the serious pursuers after the draft, which would indicate they were the ones who moved on. Based on media reports, it sounds like it came down to the Braves being the only ones offering a proration of $20M vs $17.9M, and anything more wasn't worth Keuchel shaving his beard to play for the Yankees.

    I think the bottom line is the FO had expected two of Whitley, McHugh, Peacock, Miley, James and Martin to emerge as third and fourth starters without needing Keuchel. At least Miley exceeded expectations with numbers worthy of being a third starter in the playoffs, where he performed very well last year. I guess 1 out of 2 is better than none.
     
    #94 Tuk88, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  15. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Yep, pretty obvious the calculus was that at least 2 of Peacock, McHugh, James, Whitley, Martin, Armenteros, C Perez, and Valdez would be reliable starting pitchers throughout the season. Just bad luck that Peacock was the only one who panned out (and now even he is hurt).
     
  16. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

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    Or at least offer the QO...
     
  17. cmlmel77

    cmlmel77 Up all Night Watching Houston Sports
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    Presumably Keuchel also would want a “prove it” deal to be in the National League and not be seen as a precedent of capitulation.
     
  18. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Luhnow would still have to create room for QO.
     
  19. Nook

    Nook Member

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    At this point the Astros are in a position to fill their needs from outside the organization. They will likely add a #2-3 starter under team control to stabilize the #4 spot in the rotation and possibly replace Cole next season. A #4-5 type will be available at the deadline for little prospect cost. Really, the Astros don't even need a #5 starter to win the division but I am sure we will look for one in case.

    I'm hoping they add another reliable reliever and a back up catcher if the prices are not insane. If the Astros are not overly choosy, they can likely get the catcher and #4-5 starter at a very low cost, and even get a reliever at a fair cost. I suspect it is going to be the #2-3 starter that will cost us a lot.
     
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  20. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

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    No salary cap. Winning generates revenue.

    On sports radio 790: "Astros hope to get a starting pitcher on Amazon Prime day."
     

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