South Carolina Debate Thread

She's been top 1 or 2 in every debate accept NC where Pete got one over on her.

Her policies are the most sane of the entire lot .... Nothing over the top but progress on just about every major topic.

What this tells me is that .... these debates are pretty meaningless , its all about how much **** you tell people you are gonna give away.

 

20 million people watched the last one and it seemed that Warren had a bump while Bloomberg took a hit in the polls. There was a lot of Bloomberg bashing in the news post-debate. These negative headlines have got to be making a dent.

How many people really read the policies anyway? It's great if they do a quick overview prior to voting. Many undecided until right prior to the primary date meaning that cursory policy overview is likely all that's done until then.

I hope Klobuchar at least takes the VP part of the ticket. Way more likable than HRC and can hopefully get DC to function a little better. Would be curious to see who Bernie would choose for his VP pick. He has no friends in the senate apparently. Would you feel at all better if he picked Klobuchar?

 

Here’s what Warren is referencing...the article has more, but this was the part specifically referencing the incident:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/michael-bloomberg-women/

The most high-profile case was from a former saleswoman. She sued Bloomberg personally as well as his company, alleging workplace discrimination. She alleged Bloomberg told her to “kill it” when he learned she was pregnant. Bloomberg has denied her allegation under oath, and he reached a confidential settlement with the saleswoman.

The Washington Post interviewed a former Bloomberg employee, David Zielenziger, who said he witnessed the conversation with the saleswoman. Zielenziger, who said he had not previously spoken publicly about the matter, said Bloomberg’s behavior toward the woman was “outrageous. I understood why she took offense.”

Garrison complaint
89. On April 11, 1995 at approximately 11:20 a.m., Bloomberg was having a photograph taken with two female Company salespeople and a group of N.Y.U. Business School students, in the company snack area. When Bloomberg noticed Garrison standing nearby, he asked, “Why didn’t they ask you to be in the picture? I guess they saw your face.” Continuing his penchant for ridiculing recently married women in his employ, Bloomberg asked plaintiff, “How’s married life? You married?” Plaintiff responded that her marriage was great and was going to get better in a few months: that she was pregnant, and the baby was due the following September. He responded to her “Kill it!” Plaintiff asked Bloomberg to repeat himself, and again he said, “Kill it!” and muttered, “Great! Number 16!” suggesting to plaintiff his unhappiness that sixteen women in the Company had maternity-related status. Then he walked away.​

 

Jesus Christ! That story makes Trumps grab em by the p***y comment sound wholesome...

Without a recording or court outcome it’s going to be hard to nail Bloomy on it, we will never know if he said it or not. It’s terrifying and should end his campaign if he did.

 

Trump fans always ready to put their astounding lack of self awareness and utter unfamiliarity with the concept of irony on full display in front of others here. I wonder where they learned that from.

 

WINNERS
Biden - his best debate yet (not saying much). Very aggressive! But it may very well be enough to win SC. The 150 MM gun deaths since 2017 quote was ridiculous though lol.

Pete - was great in the first half of the debate. Landed several good hits on Sanders (cost of his plans, down-ballot effect, going back to Cold War era politics) and pointed out the absurdity of the billionaires critique. Second half of the debate was much shakier - tried to defend himself but kept getting cut off. Needed to either not speak up at all or be more assertive.

Warren - continued to attack Bloomberg. Repeated quite a few attacks but he’s an easy target lol. She clearly was trying to minimize attacks on Sanders (I like his policies but I can execute better). This is going to be a brokered convention so makes sense that Warren wants the progressive wing to get over 50% of the vote in the primary, and then position herself as the compromise candidate.

LOSERS

Bernie - took a lot of incoming fire this debate. Didn’t have a good answer on gun reform (Brady Bill), cost of his plans, or his defense of the Castro regime). Still the clear frontrunner here.

Bloomberg - this guy is a cartoon character. Freudian slip saying that he “bought” 21 elections in the 2018 midterms. If he really told a pregnant employee to “kill” it, that is disqualifying (if he didn’t, Warren needs to pay big for that moment).

Moderators - my goodness what a terrible showing. Let some candidates ramble for minutes, while interjecting when substantive arguments were being made.

 

The best thing going forward would be to not have audiences for the candidates to play to and actually have a legitimate discussion and pertinent questions asked .

 

This guy.

 

Apparently, entrance to the debate required a $1700+ donation

 

How does bragging about assaulting women sound better?

We know you hate billionaires but come on.

Did this person lose their job or was she pressured.

I am not excusing Bloomberg if he did say this but its not comparable too admitting to sexual assault.

 

Meh about the same if you ask me. I actually agree that Bloomberg’s thing may be worse. If we’re looking at each statement as “conduct” rather than the substance of the speech, Bloomberg’s is clearly worse.

Let me explain: if Trump didn’t “actually” grab women by the p***y then him bragging to Billy Bush is gross but didn’t directly harm anyone. Conversely, it doesn’t matter whether or not Bloomberg was “actually” serious about the woman getting an abortion. That kind of statement directed at a pregnant woman is horrific

 

Why is it worse?

It seemed to be a throwaway comment a terrible one but just a comment.

Trump is bragging about an actual deed of sexual assault.

They both are horrific but one is only a physical act carried out by that person.

I can't believe we are going over semantics with this.

 

Mike Bloomberg. Worst. Comedian. Ever.

 

Well there’s no proof Trump did that. It’s likely he did, and if true, worse than Bloomberg’s thing. But his statement to Billy was harmless as to the parties present because they were carrying on with random BS. Doubt Billy was offended; in fact he laughed about it.

not sure of the context with regards to Mike. Maybe it was a throw-away comment that no one would take seriously. I don’t know much about it. But if he told her to “kill it” in a non-sarcastic manner, as in, a tone which would imply that he was serious...then I think it’s reasonable to say that’s much worse. Yeah they’re both bad things but I don’t think it’s outrageous to say Mike’s thing is worse

 

There is proof that Trump actually said what he does while Bloomberg denies saying it.

What does Billy have to do with anything?

Correct you don't know if Bloomberg actually said it or his tone but you know Trump actually said it and his tone yet what Bloomberg said is worse.

Yeah that makes complete sense.

Now you want to do a deep dive on what the tone of these comments where?

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...erg-adviser-slams-bernie-sanders-decades-old/

• In 1969, Sanders wrote one essay that cited studies purporting to link cervical cancer to women having too few orgasms, not too many, and another essay that criticized rules against toddlers being naked on beaches.
  
  
• In 1972, Sanders wrote about women’s sexual fantasies as part of an essay commenting on gender stereotypes. He’s since called it “bad fiction.”
  
  
• Sanders’ 1972 article: "A man goes home and masturbates his typical fantasy. A woman on her knees. A woman tied up. A woman abused. A woman enjoys intercourse with her man — as she fantasizes being raped by three men simultaneously … Do you know why the newspapers with the articles like ‘Girl, 12, raped by 14 men’ sell so well? To what in us are they appealing?’’

 

Btw it’s seems people on the right prefer allegations over recorded audio. If you think allegations are bad what about the woman accusing Trump of rape? I can play that game. If true trump should go to jail. See how easy it is.

 

Here's a problem. I don't know that there is any kind of solution. I think Klobuchar had a point about Democrats fighting each other.

1. People saying Bernie can't beat Trump is liable to encourage people not to support Sanders. People exaggerating and publicizing fake figures about how much Bernie's plans will cost might make some folks less willing to support Sanders. Damaging the likely nominee now may or may not have long-term effects.

2. Opponents of Bernie for the nomination have every right to bring up reasons to vote for them instead of Bernie.

3. Should Bernie continue and win, one of the main aspects to his path to victory is a huge turnout among the youth and new voters that don't normally vote in elections. There are enough youth voters to make the difference. But their turnout is usually extremely low. They showed up to vote for Obama but other than that only on a few state votes where mar1juana legalization was on the ballot (though not every time it was on the ballot). Anything that discourages them such as the idea that Bernie can't win will only help Trump.

I'm not a Bernie supporter at the moment. I don't want to rip off any of the other candidates from having their shot at the nomination. I understand that it is scary to have someone who might be the President having all of these brand new proposals. The party would be better served by trying to point out the aspects of those changes that would be helpful to the middle class instead of how 'crazy' they all are. The candidates themselves would be better served by trying to energize their base in ways that might mean demonizing the changes that Bernie proposes.

Personally, I'm not worried about most of the changes Bernie proposes even should they pass exactly as he describes. I also don't think anything he has proposed will be passed as he proposes it. They will always be debated, amended, and compromised before they even have a chance of passing through Congress. So, in reality, nothing he proposes will be passed as proposed. That doesn't change the fear of people, especially those that aren't going to go very in-depth into how the process works.

TLDR; Bernie has a chance to bring out different voters than any of the other candidates. Those same voters will be largely turned off if he has the most delegates but loses a brokered convention. Bernie may not get some votes from scared voters who are just too nervous about his label and proposals without amendments and compromises.

 

I agree with everything you say here but why just Bernie?

Biden and Bloomberg are being attacked just as well if not more.

 

Not the greatest campaign slogan, but seems to be all he has.

The Charisma Bus missed his stop. Given that the comparison is to Bloomberg, that's saying something.

 

Because they aren't the ones in the lead with the momentum and most delegates.

Also, they don't have a rabid base that will bring new voters to the polls (nor will they scare off some of the traditional voters). Their supporters will not be as likely to sit out the election if the other one wins a brokered convention.