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So, Russians Committed Espionage to give the Presidency to Its Stooge, and We're Just Gonna Take It?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    Forgive going off topic, but there's a narrative that needs to be corrected. Hillary was defeated by Trump in the electoral college and that never should have happened and it's an embarrassment to her and to her supporters like myself.

    That being said, her lead in the popular vote is now over 1.6 million, it will grow even more from there. Already she has received more popular votes than any president in history other than Obama. That includes every Republican nominee ever, including Trump.

    Huge embarrassment, huge upset? Yeah. Crushing rejection of the Dem party? Not so much.
     
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  2. Granville

    Granville Member

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    Democrats will have no say for the next 4 years at least and won't be appointing Supreme Court Justices any time soon. Voters knew what was at stake and voted accordingly.

    Both candidates understood how the electoral college vote works and campaigned accordingly. The Dems were naive enough to think a seriously flawed Clinton was going to carry the swing states.

    It's funny to sit back and watch people who chastised Trump for leaving open the possibility that he wouldn't accept the results of the election and now we see streets across America filled with Dems not accepting the results.
     
  3. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    Everything's so topsy turvy!

    Suddenly Republicans are fiercely defending the interest of the minority. That's pretty funny.

    And this!

    [​IMG]

    It's so sweet that President Elect Trump is still learning about our government, at his age! Proud. Very.
     
  4. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    Agreed.

    Agreed.

    Stop normalizing his actions. A nominee for president of the USA deliberately tried to erode confidence in the democratic system of our country (it's rigged!!) in order to save face in what he (as well as everybody else) saw as his upcoming defeat. It's a horrible, selfish, unpatriotic thing to do in a long litany of horrible things to do. We all have to stop normalizing extraordinary behavior.

    The side that lost the presidential election won the popular vote by 1.6 million votes (will probably climb to 2mil), and lost due to about 100k votes in MI/WI/PA, and it's just unfathomable why they would protest? It's just impossible to understand? Really?

    If the sides were reversed, and Trump had won more votes than any president in history other than Obama, but lost to Hillary due to the EC, exactly how do you think Trump voters would behave after being primed for weeks on IT'S RIGGED!!!?
     
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  5. Granville

    Granville Member

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    Trump said a lot of idiotic stuff. That's why I didn't vote for him despite being for the most part a Republican.

    Anyone protesting a fair election is pissing in the wind.
     
  6. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    Honest question, and I'll take your answer at face value:
    If your candidate won the popular vote by 2mil (of any election really important to you; 2012, 2000, whatever) but lost due to EC, how would you feel? You'd accept it as fair, no question?
     
  7. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    I would accept/ except no questions asked!
     
  8. Granville

    Granville Member

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    I'd have to accept it. No different than if my team won a game by a lot but didn't cover the point spread You play by the rules.
     
  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Why wouldn't you? The popular vote is completely irrelevant. It's like saying that your football team lost but they gained more yardage. So what?
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Rules are rules.

    But time to get rid of the EC. Higher voter participation and every votes count.
     
  11. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    the "russian" mob with presence in the US (and specifically brighton beach) isn't really russian, or even slavic.....it's largely run out of odessa and has closer ties to tel aviv than moscow
     
  12. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    To Granville,
    Just to address your comment about Dems criticizing Trump for threatening to not accept the results and then, themselves, allegedly not accepting the results.

    1. Candidates should be held to the highest standards. We have forsaken that completely, but it is a false equivalence to say a 20-something random citizen out protesting should have the same gravitas we wish we could expect from president elect.

    2. Much more importantly, most protestors, if you listen to them, are not contesting the election itself. They know the reality. But they are standing up for what they feel is basic moral decency, and they are pledging their support for people of all faiths, all colors, etc. Many are marching to emphasize they don't support a man who brags of molesting women, etc. I am not a protestor (yet), but when I talk to many people who are protesting, this is their main message. "Not my president" means they do not support his campaign messages. They have very different values than those expressed by Trump. Of course, he is in fact going to be their president and they know they can't change that, but they are exercising their 1st amendment right, and we should all hope we can retain that right for a good long while. (We'll see.)
    Yes, there are a few who want to contest the results, but they are a minority (outside of Fox News reporting, which emphasizes the very worst they can find, of course, of the protestors).

    Falsely placing narratives on our fellow citizens won't help anything. Focusing on the out-of-power group exclusively won't help the nation get ahead either. We need at least as much focus on the group that has incredible power now.
     
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  13. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Buy into Democratic propaganda much?
     
  14. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Completely agree, one person one vote. Small states already have equal representation in the senate.
     
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  15. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Agree. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't point out blatant hypocrisy when we see it. Anyone who was all up in arms about Trump's answer to the question about accepting the results of the election and is now...not accepting the results of the election is demonstrating blatant hypocrisy. Not accepting the results is very very bad when someone else does it, but perfectly ok when they do it.

    But, as usual, they are claiming to be for tolerance, while being completely intolerant of anyone who might have a different viewpoint.

    Agree! (see above comment).

    Nor will the out of power group constantly complaining about being...out of power. That's a given. Given's aren't changeable (and, no the election results are not going to be changed), and spending time on things that aren't going to change is wasted time...and just make the very change they seek harder to accomplish.
     
    #115 BigDog63, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  16. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    So, we should just let California and New York determine our elections (that is where all of Hillary's lead in the popular vote comes from, plus some)? Would you feel the same if the situation were reversed, and a Dem had won the EC vote, but say lost overwhelmingly in Texas, and had a lower popular vote? Should the vote in Texas then determine the entire election?

    And why was the Senate set up that way, and specifically why wouldn't the same apply to our general election? Should small states just not matter?
     
  17. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    And your PROOF of this is...? Heck, even some EVIDENCE of this would be nice....
     
  18. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    I believe everyone should have the same representation in presidential votes, equal representation. The way it is going, almost half the people do not vote because they live in states like NY, CA, Tx, TN etc. Let everyone join the vote, every vote should matter.
     
  19. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    THAT I am in agreement, and in favor of. Currently the election is decided by the few undecided voters in the few undecided states. How to fix that, though, without breaking something else? I suspect that is much easier said than done.
     
  20. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Every vote DOES matter. States like Pennsylvania and Michigan flipped red this election due to a terrible Democratic candidate who ran a bad race. Those states were essentially "like NY, CA, TX" in fact, the last time either of them went red was the last time California did. Any state can flip, there are no guarantees. In fact, if Hillary would have realized that, she might have poured some money into states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania that she took for granted.

    I explained over and over again in a different thread why there's no chance at tearing up the electoral college system and switching to a popular vote. I explained why it would be a bad thing even. That said, if states like California and New York want to make changes to hand out their electoral votes based on the percentage of the popular vote a candidate receives, I'd support their wishes......of course you wouldn't, because it would mean that it would be nearly impossible for a Democrat to ever win a presidential election again and the ONLY reason you want the system changed in the first place is because you want the candidates you support to have a better chance at election. It's really not thought out much more than that.
     

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