Should the US accept legal immigrants from "shithole" countries?

Naw, there could have been talk about outsourcing that I missed, but there was also talk of reducing the amount of IT workers from India. Companies are hiring them for cheaper than Americans, thus dropping wages for all, was the argument. The only question is if Trump used it at all in his official campaign.

We don't believe you, you need more people. Prove it.

I believe that having a supply of high-skilled workers greater than the demand would lead to drop in wages. And you still wouldn't fill the jobs that require low-skilled workers.

This is another prediction that I just don't trust will happen. I could roll with them being filled by unemployed Americans, but there isn't that many in that pool. I don't trust that innovation will fill in the rest.

Besides meeting protocol, I don't see the need to say that they have to "earn it." It makes you sound like you think migrating here is so special and that immigrants should be so lucky to work and live here. Entitled is probably not be the word I'm looking for.

I think that we need them as much as they need us. Whether they're nurses or doing nails, I appreciate them leaving their home country and providing this service.

I don't believe this to be true anymore. Those **** holes aren't as bad as they used to be. Even if it was true, though, we don't need millions of professionals unless they're willing to humble themselves and do jobs they are overqualified for.

That's true. Difference is that most countries haven't sold their soul to market forces and thus accepted open-labor policies that greatly change their demographics and threaten their sovereignty. Our actions have proven that we don't care who gets in so long as they help us make money by working for us and buying **** and extra credit if they create more people that will also work for us and buy more ****.

Let the record show that I wasn't the first to compare selecting immigrants to selecting friends.

You could only have so many best friends. You also need those friends that you don't even like to hang out with, but will do favors for you anyway. You need those friends with trucks who will help you move tomorrow. You need those friends that make you feel good about yourself through comparison. You need that friend with the hot sister. You need that friend that has the hook-up. If you just pick a bunch of friends that could all be your best friends then inevitably a lot of them will become that dude that has a truck and helps you move tomorrow. They'll be underutilized and they'll hate you for it cause you ain't all that and they had other friends.

 

I hope Liberon's health insurance can fully cover Booby's 7.25$ per hour consultation fee

 

I looked it up, and you are right, Trump took issue with the guest worker program with Indian IT workers and i don't support that. If workers are highly skilled, they are the kinds of migrants you want. I understand the idea behind an influx of skilled workers dropping the wages for all, but you let the market solve that "problem". When you have a glut of highly skilled workers and depressed wages, that's usually when you get some innovation or some of those highly skilled workers creating their own jobs.

As to you not believing that there isn't a massive need for an influx of unskilled, uneducated migrants to do the b**** work of the country and add to the poverty problem.....well that's fine. Don't believe me. I would argue that it's self explanatory. Anyone can do those jobs and there are plenty of unskilled, uneducated people already in this country. I'm not saying don't import any more at all, I'm just saying that they should be a fairly small minority of those you bring in.....not more than half as it currently stands.

Migrating here IS special. The US is the richest country on the planet and the list of people who want to come here to live is miles long.....but that's not even the point. Migrating ANYWHERE is special. No one has the right to live in another persons country, so it's special when it is allowed. Migrants who are allowed to work and live here ARE incredibly lucky. Perhaps that's what you are missing in this conversation. When you look at the total number of immigrants in the entire world, about 20% of them currently live in the US....clearly they must think it's special.

And let the record show that I stand by that comparison even if you didn't follow the analogy (or more likely didn't want to because it debunked the way you wish to view the situation). For whatever reason you seem convinced that what the US needs more of are welfare and charity cases who will be a net drag on society. I just don't think you can justify that if you really thought about it. With the friends argument, I never suggested that you didn't need many different kinds of friends, I only talked about wanting high quality friends that would benefit your life rather than being a net drag on it. Your argument is that you need some terrible friends who are a net drag on your life.....because reasons.

There's nothing wrong with allowing in some poor, unskilled, uneducated migrants that don't even have command over the language every year as a form of charity, I'm just suggesting that the US reduce that number.

 

I am talking about quotas.

 

"Do you agree with Trump regarding eliminating legal immigration from shithole countries?"

False question. That is not what Trump said, or intended. He wants to move from a quota system to needs based. Which would still allow in immigrants from any country...it just wouldn't force such immigration. Which would be a good question for discussion. it just wasn't the question asked here.

 

You, like Trump, are completely oblivious to why the US has historically had moral authority and a leadership role in the world. Since our inception, people from "shithole" countries all over the world have come to the United States and contributed immeasurably to our success. You, like Trump, don't have the first clue what actually makes America great. You're trying to re-invent a greatness in an image that has never existed.

And I say that as someone who doesn't support a stupid wall, but supports deporting illegals and changing birthright citizenship laws.

 

We "force" immigration from certain countries?

 

Bingo. It's ok to want, and acknowledge, our need for what some people would call "unskilled" labor (framing, roofing, concrete, masonry, all manner of ranch work clearing brush and cutting wood and building fence etc...), those guys are not unskilled in the least, plus their also doing ag work like picking your vegetables and fruits, processing all your meats, etc....

Why should it cost me, as a sponsor, about $35K in lawyer fees and paperwork to get ONE guy a proper greencard? It is a bureaucratic nightmare.

Literally, nobody "american" will do these jobs. It's not happening. We need hard working hombres who will work their asses off (and be treated right) for $100/day (that's the going rate for ranch work around here, w/ room and board). I've worked alongside them, some of the hardest working most down-to-earth wonderful guys I've ever met. All they want to do is work, enjoy life, work some more, send back some $$$ to help their family back in Guanajuato or wherever.

The whole agriculture, construction, service industries cannot function without these folks. Deal with it. So we need to find a better way.

 

What's funny here is that you are completely oblivious to the fact that the US still has moral authority and a leadership role in the world.....even if you don't personally like the direction the US chooses to go. It's pretty obvious that you are another idiot like Michelle Obama that was proud to be an American for the first time when Obama was elected, and when he left office you ceased to be.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with being like that so long as you own up to it, but you'll have to understand why people only laugh at you when you try to make arguments like the one you are trying to make now.....don't get me wrong, you are a joke most of the time, but you take it to another level in conversations like this one.

 

Everyone is quoting Canadian "merit based" immigration strategy this totally wrong yes Canada brings in immigrants based on the merit based criteria they also bring in refugees fleeing from oppression and war.(see over 25k from Syria) Those are not merit based, but the right never seems to bring it up because it does not fit into their narrative

 

SMH . . .. . . . No need to even read the thread to know .. . .

Rocket River
You are what you defend

 

Most Americans have their roots in sh*t holes....

 

Poverty is always relative.

This is poverty in Haiti:





This is "poverty" in Norway:







In fairness, in Oslo sexual crime and theft is a serious problem, although it is primarily committed by Middle Easterners, Africans and Europeans that are not citizens.

Although the USA is still the most attractive place for immigrants, the reality is that people from Norway and other Western European countries are not going to be clamoring to move anywhere else. Indeed, the social programs are so strong in Norway, that it would largely be foolish to make a jump to the USA.

Haitians are like the Italians, the Irish and Poles that flooded the United States over 100 years ago. They were not well received at the time, and only after time did they become part of the fabric of the USA.

I understand the concern of allowing poor people, and the crime associated with crime into the USA. It isn't a new concern. However the reality is that in many cases the wealthy are not going to leave where there are.

 

Immigrants were blamed by ignorant folks on things caused by the Great Recession and automation... we still have millions of illegal immigrants and smelly useless immigrants yet the economy and crime is where we want it....

The Great Recession was a terrible thing folks.

 

In a vacuum, I don't think I would have a problem with tweaking immigration rules. If Presidents Bush or Obama or Kasich supported ending diversity and going to a merit-based system, I wouldn't have blinked. But to have a racist president advocate for it in a year we have white supremacists marching the streets makes me not amenable. This is a big alt-right goal, to reduce legal immigration while also stopping illegal immigration, to stop all the temporary authorizations and refugee programs, to stop Muslims from coming, and to make America more 'American' generally. And I don't think the alt-right's agenda has a legitimate consensus across the country. I don't think people realized they were voting for this when they were voting for Trump. I would hate to codify this rather large ideological swing into legislation when most people aren't even understanding what is really being proposed. So, there's no problem with tweaking and optimizing your immigration policy, but not like this.

There is some of that merit stuff in proposed legislation. But not in Trump's objection to allowing diversity lottery in shithole countries. Right now, that visa requires the equivalent of a US high school diploma to qualify. If the quality of immigrant is insufficient, you can just beef up the requirements instead of discriminating against particular countries and continents. You can require college degrees, or a technical certification. Or x years of experience in a trade. You can administer IQ tests, or personality screens. So Trump's objection was not based on need or merit. There are mechanisms for that. He's objecting to the things that people from those countries necessarily bring with them no matter how meritorious they are -- their race and culture. The whole point of the diversity lottery is to inject races and cultures from around the world. The objection to the diversity lottery is an objection to accepting races and cultures from around the world. That's not a merit conversation; that's a debate on whether diversity is to be sought or not.

 

So, in short, there's nothing wrong with it.....other than the fact that you think the president is racist and there was an isolated event in some sh*thole part of the country?

I'm betting you convince many people with that kind of argument.

 

You, as in Bobbythegreat, don't get to decide this though.

The world's opinion on our country and how moral we are isn't so hot right now, you should check it out.