1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Seahawks interested in Duane Brown?

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by DaBeard, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Messages:
    5,400
    Likes Received:
    4,317
    The contracts allow them to be cut and spell out the terms of payment. It's not like they are under the impression that they'll be paid that full amount. They have to perform to get that money. If they want more, they have to show they are worth more and then it will be offered when they are eligible for a new contract. I couldn't stop midway through a project and then demand more money to finish it, could I?
     
    csj likes this.
  2. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Messages:
    18,949
    Likes Received:
    3,528
    y'all finished or y'all done?
     
    mikol13 and Tonaaayyyy like this.
  3. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    46,765
    Likes Received:
    18,464
    OMG, a rational take.
     
  4. csj

    csj Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    170
    A team never cuts a player because they "suddenly can't afford them", this just shows how shallow your thinking is. Teams cut players because they want to field the best team. Part of that is managing salary cap. The best clubs sustain a level of excellence in managing cap and they field the most consistently good teams over time. If that creates hard feelings with players like Brown, good.

    With you're obviously limited grasp of the issue, you're really in no position to tell fans how to feel. Fans of the game, and of specific teams, have absolutely NO reason to even consider how much any specific player is being paid. Fans of football have no obligations to be fans of other people's money. On the contrary, any fan of the game should view selfish acts, such as Brown's, that diminish the team, punish teams for doing a good job managing payroll, and damage the product on the field, with complete contempt.
     
    Houstunna likes this.
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    47,911
    Likes Received:
    14,149
    If a team can’t keep a player because of cap issues and other team needs... that is exactly what “being able to afford” a player implies.

    I am not a Duane Brown fan... just explaining why you tend to see this more in the NFL than any other sports. If they had fully guaranteed contracts, regardless of injury or performance, you wouldn’t see as many hold-outs.
     
  6. csj

    csj Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    170
    Teams don't offer me a contract not because they "can't afford to" but because it would make their team worse. No reason to go through gyrations to explain away your naive take, Nick. Teams can always afford high priced players, lust not if they also want to be good. Not everything is known beforehand. If you don't want to be a cap casualty, insist on guaranteed money and accept fewer years and less money. Players are not victims and they have agents.

    The NFL DOES have fully guaranteed contracts, just not ONLY fully guaranteed contracts. If you want to do some "explaining", better do some understanding first.

    The NFL could not operate with a hard cap and only fully guaranteed contracts. None of this has to do with football anyway, but merely the inner workings of the league on the business side. Fans don't care, and neither did Duane when he enjoyed the guaranteed years of one of the most lucrative OL contracts in the league. Now that he's siphoned off the cream, he's screwing the team.

    Fans should have only one reaction, the complete rejection of any player that deliberately damages the ability of their team to compete. Duane Brown has done exactly this, and for money reasons that aren't really all that clear. The greatest possible outcome of this is that Duane Brown suffers maximum loss as a result.
     
  7. Nimo

    Nimo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    13,392
    Likes Received:
    7,056
    Dude, get off it. Stop calling people shallow and naive just to prove your point.
     
  8. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    47,911
    Likes Received:
    14,149
    A ton of words to basically say exactly the same thing.

    Teams can cut players at any point when they no longer need them, or when they want somebody better. “Cap casualties” don’t happen in any other sport.... not without a buyout.

    Gyrations? I think I’ll let you take the lead on that. I don’t condone what Brown, or any other holdout that willingly signed a contract within th system in place... but you’re acting like no player ever benefitted from a holdout before, and the system that allows for these sorts of interventions.
     
    #148 Nick, Oct 18, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  9. csj

    csj Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    170
    Exactly the same thing as you? Hardly.

    As it should be. The league exists for teams to compete...for the benefit of fans.

    "Cap casualties" don't exist for players with guarantees either. The NFL has a hard cap and NFL teams have huge rosters. Different sports should not be compared. Frankly, the NFL works better than other sports.

    I am in no way acting like that nor have I said anything that remotely suggests it. Nice try.

    A system may allow for holdouts but that doesn't mean they are condoned or that they are ethical. Murder is "allowed" but not condoned. Sure, there are penalties (if you are caught) but there are penalties for holdouts as well. You aren't the first person to try justify holdouts as though they are intended to occur.
     
  10. csj

    csj Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    170
    Sure thing boss. If there's one thing that can be counted on it's being told what to do by other posters.

    That's today only and in this very thread. How this looks has nothing to do with me, but go ahead and pretend I'm the problem if that'll make you feel better.

    BTW, Nimo, I did not call Nick "shallow", I called his thinking shallow. I also didn't call Nick "naive", I called his take naive. Your reading comprehension could stand some improvement. Perhaps you could get back to us after you've received an education.
     
    #150 csj, Oct 18, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  11. panamamyers

    panamamyers Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2000
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    1,100
    I hate when Ted Johnson always uses that same faulty logic. It's is written into the contract that the team can cut them and be required to pay a certain sum of money to the player. That's part of the contract that the player has signed.
    There is nothing in the contract that states that the player can demand more money. He is reniging on a contract that he signed when he refused to pay for what he signed for.
    The team is sticking to the details of the contract and all times when cutting players.
     
    Bobbythegreat likes this.
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    63,171
    Likes Received:
    25,826
    Exactly, teams ALWAYS honor the terms of a contract but every time the player refuses to show up they are violating the terms of the contract. That BS you hear from players and those who parrot their nonsense simply does not hold water.

    The fact that it sometimes works out for the player is the problem and it's also why I'm happy that Duane Brown is costing himself so much money that he'll never recover.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    47,911
    Likes Received:
    14,149
    I’m sure holdouts just randomly occur in the NFL, compared to any other sport, simply because it “is what it is”.

    Then again, I’m not the internet-genius who just really tried to bring “ethics” into it....

    In the end, the owners have full control of the players... and they know it. Most NFL players are replaceable.... either by injury or by the time of the next draft. The ones that aren’t, and we’re talking about a number that is likely less than 30 players (not every team has one), get rewarded towards the higher end of the spectrum.

    Who’s talking about “condoning” holdouts? I’m simply saying they exist in part due to the labor conditions that the players agreed to.... in a scenario where they have very little negotiating wiggle room compared to other comparable unions.
     
    Nimo likes this.
  14. Nimo

    Nimo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    13,392
    Likes Received:
    7,056
    *Your
     
    csj and Joshfast like this.
  15. csj

    csj Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    170
    Thanks for the correction. I notice you didn't correct your errors despite them actually being errors of substance. Says a lot about you.
     
  16. Nimo

    Nimo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    13,392
    Likes Received:
    7,056
    Errors of substance. Ha!
     
  17. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    47,911
    Likes Received:
    14,149
    The NFL is the only league where its expected that players will be cut prior to the entire length of their contract... not sure why you continue to refute that? NFL players holdout moreso than any other league... not sure why you continue to refute that?

    You're arguing this with yourself... yes, they sign these contracts... that is not being debated. Its also true that these contracts are structured in a way that no other league has been able to enforce.

    Feel free to get angry at players... I don't. Doesn't mean I support his decision... I'm just not going to go all apoplectic over it. I understand why NFL players feel compelled to hold out, moreso than any other league's players. Its a shitty system in comparison to other leagues... but the players have to take it because yes, there are no other leagues for them to get paid this much to do this job.

    And if they ever tried to go on strike, again, they'd lose... again. The players will never win against the owners.

    I'll let you go back to making loud noises....
     
    #157 Nick, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  18. csj

    csj Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    170
    Enjoying the irony of your passive-aggressive personal attack after criticizing me for making personal attacks which I did not do. Ha!
     
  19. csj

    csj Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    170
    Continue to refute that? I've never even commented on that nor does it interest me. You seem to think this is somehow bad, I don't think it's bad nor do I think should fans of the game care. All leagues cut players and no teams in any league are in the business of handing out huge payouts to players who don't help them win. The NFL is not a business for making players rich, nor is any other sports league (nor should they be).

    So you concede, then, that the owners DON'T have full control of the players. It was certainly not a point that I had made yet you're now claiming I'm arguing with myself?

    You love to construct your straw mans. Is there ever a time when you don't feel the need to put words in my mouth in order to argue? Perhaps you should find stronger points to make. I am not angry with players and have never said otherwise.

    It's a shame these players are constantly being made to "bend over backwards". Such horrible owners and such a "shitty system". I'd gladly bend over backwards for weekly half million dollar game checks, a payout apparently not good enough for a certain, victimized player. You make so much sense, Nick. Hopefully you will gain a more mature perspective with time.
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    47,911
    Likes Received:
    14,149
    I’m sorry you’re not up to the task to discuss this... good effort though.

    I like the part how you said you’re not angry with the players, even though you just advocated that fans should be angry with Brown. Good stuff.

    Also, good job trying to make it seem like you don’t care. You’re the only one trying to escalate this. Most understand why the system construct allows for the possibility of holdouts.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now