LOL thats your defense/justification of Trump being Russia/Putin's lapdog? is it "it ain't true look at Venezuela" or "its all worth it look at Venezuela" or both
I would say for the 10-15% who are insynch with the uninformed, quite possibly bigoted, and very possibly not highly educated there is some sort/amount of bigotry, racism, intolerance, anti-diversity in play for their decision you have question why are they still 100% behind / in support of a POTUS and 20-20% based who has racist, bigoted, intolerence, anti-diverse agendas? so if they're okay with it then...
How does this benefit Russia? Maybe I missed something, but the logic doesn't make sense. Also, what is the monetary value on this to Russia? There is a clear monetary and economic loss to Russia with all of the Venezuela changes. And is it clear that it was done to help Russia? The comments from the Pompeo certainly seemed to be condemning Russia.
My idol? If you think that me trying to dismiss a narrative means that I worship Trump then you need to rethink things.
LOL you that stupid? how does pulling out from a Nuclear Arms Control treaty benefit our cold war adversary?
okay so answer my question to you do you believe when US intelligence agencies and the senate said that Russia interfered with the US 2016 elections?
i think ur just playing dumb Putin wants to test nuclear anywhere and however he wants. But the treaty constraints him from doing so, ending the treaty frees up Putin, so he asks his useful idiot to get it done paving the way for an arms race
So I guess being complimentary of Putin at every turn, having secret one on one meetings with him where no one knows what was discussed, bending over on the world stage next to Putin to claim that Russia didn't meddle in the election, actively doing everything everything possible to remove sanctions on Russian oligarchs and having all sorts of financial ties including trying to develop a tower in Moscow in the middle of an election mean nothing because the US and Russia are on opposite sides in the Venezuela ordeal? Okay.
Yes, you did miss something. There was already one article posted on it. Putin has wanted the deal dead ever since he came to power. Other presidents held him to the deal, but now Trump let them off the hook.
I am stupid. Explain it to me like I am stupid please. I'm not even being facetious. Please break it down for me because the administration is claiming that they are pulling out because of actions Russia has taken to violate the agreement.
Ok so Putin tells Trump to say "Russia you are violating the agreement and we will break the agreement because of this". Then Trump waits a few years and pulls out of it and then NATO completely supports the action. Then we have an arms race and this benefits Putin? I don't get it. That is some real 4-D chess going on.
Is this article not an accurate assessment in your eyes? https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/01/politics/us-russia-nuclear-arms-treaty-pompeo/index.html Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced Friday that the US is suspending the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, a key pact with Russia that has been a centerpiece of European security since the Cold War. "For years, Russia has violated the terms of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty without remorse," Pompeo said, speaking from the State Department. "Russia's violations put millions of Europeans and Americans at greater risk." "It is our duty to respond appropriately," Pompeo said, adding that the US had provided "ample time" for Russia to return to compliance. The long-expected suspension, which has raised concerns about a renewed arms race with Moscow and put European allies on edge, goes into effect on Saturday. Pompeo's announcement starts a 180-day clock to complete withdrawal unless Russia returns to compliance with the 1987 agreement. President Donald Trump and his senior officials had been signaling for months that they were ready to pull out of the INF treaty, which the US accuses Moscow of violating since 2014. 'Full support' "The United States has fully adhered to the INF Treaty for more than 30 years, but we will not remain constrained by its terms while Russia misrepresents its actions," Trump said in a statement Friday. "We cannot be the only country in the world unilaterally bound by this treaty, or any other." Later, at the White House, the President hinted to reporters that he'd be open to negotiations on a new treaty but did not mention Russia by name -- the only other signatory to the pact. "I hope that you're able to get everybody in a big and beautiful room and do a new treaty that would be much better, but certainly I would like to see that," Trump said, according to pool reports. "But you have to have everybody adhere to it and you have a certain side that almost pretends it doesn't exist.' "So unless we're going to have something we all agree to we can't be put at the disadvantage of going by a treaty, limiting what we do, when somebody else doesn't go by that treaty," Trump said. While Russia and the US are the only two parties to the treaty, but it significantly affects European security. The ground-based nuclear tipped cruise missiles covered by the bilateral agreement can fly between 310 to 3,100 miles, making them a threat to Europe, where officials have unanimously backed the US decision, even as they consider their next steps and admit having little to no optimism that the treaty can be saved. In a statement, NATO said America's allies "fully support" the US decision because of Russia's threat to Euro-Atlantic security and its refusal to provide any credible response or take any steps towards full and verifiable compliance. NATO urged Russia to use the next six months to "return to full and verifiable compliance to preserve the INF Treaty." Arms control experts sound the alarm "We are heading into a direction we have not been in in 40 years: no arms control limits or rules that we are both following, and that is very dangerous," said Lynn Rusten, a senior director for arms control and nonproliferation at the National Security Council during the Obama administration who is now a vice president at the Nuclear Threat Initiative. US officials and lawmakers have expressed concern that the treaty is allowing China to gain a military advantage, as Beijing is not bound by the INF treaty's limits on intermediate range missiles that currently constrain the US. Trump appeared to confirm this in his Friday remarks to reporters, saying, "first of all you have to add countries" to the treaty. But a senior US administration official denied Beijing is a factor. "There's a lot of discussion about China," this official said, briefing reporters on the suspension. "It is a reality that China is unconstrained, it is a reality they have more than 1,000 of these weapons, but for the United States this has nothing to do with China. This is solely about Russia's violation of this treaty." "We simply cannot tolerate this kind of abuse of arms control," the official said. Russian denials Russia has consistently denied being in violation of the treaty, and on Thursday, Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov said talks with the US hadn't yielded progress. "Unfortunately, there is no progress. The US position remains rather tough and ultimatum-like," Ryabkov said, according to Russian state media outlet TASS. "We told the US side that it is impossible to hold dialogue in the conditions of attempted blackmailing of Russia," he added. Senior US administration officials countered Thursday by laying out Russia's repeated efforts to get the US to agree to dissolve the treaty and years of American effort to get Russia to comply, including 35 diplomatic engagements ranging from the highest political levels to technical talks. "We have, unfortunately, very little to show for it," said a US official who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity, stressing that "the onus is on Russia." "Russia continues to deny its violations ... Russia will have this chance. If they are truly interested in preserving this treaty, this is their final chance," the official continued. "It would be in Russia's best interests to return to full and verifiable compliance." This official noted the "remarkable unity" among the US and its European allies, but European officials say they're concerned about the treaty dissolving and say they will use the six-month window to urge Russia to comply. "It is clear to us that Russia has violated this treaty and that's why we need to speak to Russia,'' German Chancellor Angela Merkel said at a press conference in Berlin on Friday, shortly before the US announced its intention to suspend the treaty. Germany will ''do everything we can'' to use the six-month deadline after the termination to hold further talks with Russia, Merkel said. 'What are we looking at instead?' European officials discussing the fallout in the coming months point to a possible increase in Russian cyber activities, including its influence campaigns, Russia is likely to use the US withdrawal as an excuse to deploy systems elsewhere and the certainty of finger-pointing, as Moscow works to assign blame. "Russia will feel more legitimized to continue what it's doing now, but also increasing some of its efforts on missile technology and deploying them," said a European official. A second European official said that "they will threaten, they will try to divide NATO, they'll do anything but stay quiet." The Russians will likely argue that "this is about the US and the US trying to destabilize the international order," this official said, stressing that Europe has been united in its stance, alongside the US, that Russia has been violating the treaty. "The bigger picture is what kind of sign you're sending out, what message you're sending," said a third European official. "For us, this treaty was extremely important for our security. What are we looking at instead" if it is scrapped, the official asked.
The Venezuela ordeal is a MAJOR deal for the Russians (and Chinese) financially and with respect to geopolitical power. With Maduro gone then Russia is effectively kicked out of the Western hemisphere. I finally found a decent summary of what Russia stands to lose when Maduro gets kicked to the curb. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/01/24/what-does-russia-stand-to-lose-in-venezuela Money money money Russia has spent an enormous amount of money in Venezuela to support close ties with the regimes led by Hugo Chavez and Nicolás Maduro. According to an investigation published in August 2017 by Reuters, Moscow issued at least $17 billion in loans and credit lines between 2016 and 2017, becoming Venezuela’s “lender of last resort.” After Maduro’s most recent visit to Moscow in December 2018, he announced that Russia would invest more than $5 billion in Venezuela’s oil industry, more than $1 billion in its mining industry, and send more than 661,000 tons of grain. Perhaps fortunately for Russia, this money wasn’t released before the current presidential crisis. The relationship has had some turbulence, however. Two years ago, Venezuela fell behind on payments for a $1-billion loan issued in 2011 to buy Russian military goods, before settling on a 10-year $3-billion deferment plan. Venezuela’s state oil company PDVSA is repaying almost all its debt to Russia with oil, but these shipments aren't always on time, and Moscow has complained that Caracas never seems to fall behind schedule with its obligations to China. By 2013, Russia's arms exporter Rosoboronexport had sold roughly $11 billion in arms to Venezuela — again mostly on credit. In 2006, the company agreed to invest $474 million in the construction of factories to build Kalashnikov weapons and ammunition, but corruption has derailed the process and these plants are still inactive, even though they were dueto come online last year. You've got a friend in me What does Russia get in return for all this trouble? First, there’s the international publicity. In an era of sustained sanctions and attempted isolation by the West, Moscow takes the friends it can get. Chavez visited Moscow eight times between 2006 and 2013, Maduro has come four times over the past 5.5 years. First as deputy prime minister and later as Rosneft president, Igor Sechin has been the Kremlin’s point man in Venezuela, visiting Caracas once or twice a year since the mid-2000s. Venezuela was the only major country to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia (apparently Sechin's personal negotiating feat), and Maduro’s rhetoric on Crimea has been sympathetic to Moscow (though Caracas hasn’t formally recognized Russia’s annexation). Snarling at the Monroe Doctrine In terms of military presence, Russia has struggled to convert its partnership with Venezuela into a meaningful alliance for its armed forces, but Russian bombers have flown to Caracas three times (in 2008, 2013, and 2018), alarming the United States and disrupting Washington's generally uncontested hegemony in the Western Hemisphere. A national security threat? In exchange for all the credit its coughed up, Rosneft has also acquired minority shares in five joint ventures with PDVSA. In another challenge to the United States, Rosneft also signed a deal in 2016 giving it 49.9% of the U.S.-based refiner Citgo as collateral for a $1.5 billion loan to PDVSA. If Rosneft moves to take ownership of these shares, the U.S. government could try to block the acquisition on national security grounds, leading to “a compelling standoff between Venezuela, Russia, and the U.S.,” according to Forbes. And a few other articles Russian Interests in Venezuela: A New Cold War? https://www.americasquarterly.org/content/russian-interests-venezuela-new-cold-war Venezuela quickly becoming Russia's newest satellite state https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/361176-venezuela-becoming-russias-newest-satellite-state Russia and China, heavily invested in Venezuela, warily watch the political turmoil https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-venezuela-russia-china-20190125-story.html
Sorry @robbie380 , but not everything is viewed through the lens of Venezuela, though I know it's important to you (and should be to everyone).
this thread is about Trump being Russia and Putin's b**** and Trumps denial/defense of Russia interfering with US elections is proof on that
It’s important to me but it is also bluntly goes against the narrative of Trump only doing Putin’s work. There is a massive incongruity that needs to be addressed by the people continuing to further the narrative that Trump’s actions only benefit Putin. There have been other actions as well where Trump has countered Putin, but this is the most painfully obvious one. I would be fine with accepting that Trump is only serving Putin if that was consistent with his actions but it has not shown itself to be that way to me over time. Maybe people don’t realize the hegemonic and economic influence that Russia possessed in Venezuela? I certainly didn’t until recently. Oh well...carry on gentlemen!
