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Ohtani out until 2020?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by bobrek, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    If he's just a hitter or a pitcher - even a great one, he's no different than dozens or hundreds of baseball players before him. He has a chance to be completely unique, and it's something he wants to do, and the Angels agreeing to that is a big part of why he signed there. I think you have to let him pursue that if it's what he wants. Besides, just because it is his routine doesn't mean it has to be that way all the time. If they ever make the playoffs, maybe he can hit on more days, especially with all the days off, which boosts his dual-role value dramatically. If nothing else, on those off days, he serves as the best pinch hitter in baseball.
     
  2. Buck Turgidson

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    Would you trade a whole career of Vlad Guerrero for half a Vlad and half a Curt Schilling? (I'm just pulling names out of me arse)
     
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  3. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    If Vlad Guerrero could pitch... or Curt Schilling could hit... you damn well realize that they'd consider trying to do both at a professional level.
     
  4. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Maybe they both could, they just weren't allowed to continue. AJ Reed did both at am extremely high level in college, but was he allowed to continue doing both?
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    strange example using somebody who may never be an everyday player in the big leagues... there are a ****-ton of college guys who were two-way players in college.

    Its certainly rare to find a player who can do both exceptionally well, at an MLB level, AND they were groomed to do so. Ohtani has been this sort of phenom talent his entire post-pubescent life. He was scouted in Japan by MLB GM's long before he eventually came here. They've known about this capability and its certainly exciting to see glimmers of it.

    He's only 24. Plenty of time to figure it out. Chances are he does just stick with one, or he physically can't do both... but I bet he optimizes all opportunities (even if comes to having surgery) to try and continue.
     
  6. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    The point is maybe they could, we just never gave them the chance. Rick Ankiel was a very good pitcher and a decent hitter. Didn't get to do both at the same time.

    Jason Lane was a decent hitter and looked good as and older pitcher. Maybe he could have done both.

    Maybe the reason you can't point to people being great at both is because they don't fall off and start doing the other.
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    Well, it would technically be a half-Vlad plus full-Schilling if we're assuming he'd pitch normally. But if I signed a kid for dirt cheap with the specific promise that I'd give him every chance to be half-and-half, then yeah, I think so. Especially, if I could get 80% Vlad and full Schilling in the playoffs. There's no real harm in it - if it doesn't work out, he can always be a hitter later on. TJS seems like ACL repairs now - they repair it 100% and sometimes even end up making the arm stronger. Let him try both - if it doesn't work, turn him into one or the other - but at least give him the opportunity you promised him.
     
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  8. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    My point is that it takes a little more than just being "decent".

    You have to have phenom-like ability at both from a young age to foster that sort of development.

    Its also largely up to the player... how hard do they want to work to be good at both. Takes a helluva lot of time/effort (unless you're simply a god-given natural).

    Ohtani has nowhere near the miles on his arm that other Japan imports have had... because of his young age.
     
  9. punkoholic

    punkoholic Member

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    Ohtani should just hit and be their closer(could hit and pitch in the same game and would allow him to play most games). Technically he's still getting a chance to pitch. Only problem is, lack of save opportunities on the Angels haha. Or was the promise for him to hit and be a starting pitcher?
     
  10. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    For nearly all players, it really isn't up to them. Ohtani was rare in that he had his choice of 30 teams and had proven it at the 2nd highest level the sport had to offer. Most international players are 16 years old and teams do what they want with them. American kids are drafted. There just isn't the same leverage. If Ohtani was in the draft, we may not see him as a hitter. In America we've always decided after college or HS that you have to be one or the other, not both.

    Hard to say Ohtani is helping or hurting the idea you can do both. He's proving you can be great at both, but with injury and how often he wasn't playing even when healthy (I think he was sitting before starts and after them, or something like that), that's a really big blow.

    I think being a reliever would be better, but that opens up the whole losing the DH thing. I'm not sure they should care.
     
  11. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Due to hit in the 8th inning. Since it's a close game they don't want to pinch hit for him. Gets on base. Stranded there. When does he get warm?
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Your views are largely based simply on what has been done in the past... not necessarily meriting how good Ohtani is at both. There was also a time where starters pitched whole games on 3 days rest routinely. There was a time where pitchers through 150+ pitches. There was a time when there was no such thing as a DH.

    If teams, or "America" as you put it, want to purposefully stifle somebody who is phenomenal at both pitching/hitting... seems pretty short-sighted. Also, like I said earlier, plenty of 2-way players in HS or college decide what to focus on only at the start of their pro careers.

    In reality, most players simply are better at one vs the other... and choose that path to focus on. Its tremendously hard to be successful at both, as it takes twice the effort and twice the god-given natural talent ability. Ohtani has accomplished that... hence why he's so "special".

    There's also room for evolution in this game... and its exciting to see somebody making it work as it may just entice more teams to let players develop both aspects (or players have more dedication to increase their earning potential and be prolific at both).
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Being a reliever doesn't preserve or protect his arm in any way... and this is first-hand coming from pitchers.
     
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  14. Buck Turgidson

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    Brooks Kieschnick was the first amazing 2-way college baseball player I can remember.
     
  15. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    I don't believe pitchers actually know a damn thing (they don't want to be relievers). If you prescribe to the pitch limitations, relieving is obviously better. Definitely seems to be fewer relievers get TJS.

    But the biggest reason is you'd have him in the lineup every game.
     
  16. punkoholic

    punkoholic Member

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    Good point, never thought of that.
     
  17. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    At the start of each inning except the last in the field.

    At the start of the 9th inning on the mound.

    Jack Labosky for the 2018 Duke Baseball team was their starting third baseman and closer. He made it work all year.
     
  18. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    So if the Angels are ahead by one run in the bottom of the 8th and Ohtani (their second best hitter) is due to hit, you don't let him hit?
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Why can’t he be in the lineup every game as starter?

    I hear his idea of a bullpen session is playing catch.
     
  20. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Shohei Ohtani is scheduled to undergo Tommy John surgery on his right elbow next week, after the conclusion of the 2018 regular season. This has pretty much been the expected end result since Ohtani was diagnosed September 5 with new damage to the UCL in his elbow. The surgery will be performed by Dr. Neal ElAttrache in Los Angeles. Ohtani won't pitch again until 2020, but there is speculation that he will be able to serve as the Angels' regular designated hitter throughout the 2019 season. The 24-year-old Japanese star boasts a .925 OPS with 21 home runs and nine stolen bases over his first 99 major league games, proving more than capable on the offensive side of things. He made 10 appearances as a pitcher in his rookie campaign, registering a 3.31 ERA with 63 strikeouts across 51 2/3 innings.
     

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