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Ocasio-Cortez tweets and other news

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Here is the thing though...

    You and others here called Trump racist or called the things he's said as racist...

    There are millions of people in this country, maybe even close to half, that strongly disagree, that would say you are falsely accusing Trump of being a racist or that your calls for racism are completely wrong. They become defensive regardless no matter how clear or vague the racism is, they always become defensive about it. To many people even calling Trump racist is crying wolf about racism...so even while you say that we shouldn't throw the term casually around, a good portion of the chunk believe that calling Trump a racist is doing just that and have already become defensive and can't hear you.

    I think people are right to call it out when they see it or feel it and not to ignore it. I think people should wonder that maybe it's being called out because thanks to the current atmosphere...there's a lot more of it going around and therefore there are a lot more people calling it out.

    I mean this board as example, I've never thought I'd have been talking to people that believe in Race/IQ on this forum...yet...already met a few these past few years...
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Yes, I see this. The question I ask is why? I don't know, but I generally believe a segment of these people tune out to racist claim because of a society that uses the "racist" card too easily. This is the cost I mentioned. If this belief is correct and I obvious believe so, continue to using this card too easily would increase this segment - the negative cost I mentioned. There is of course a segment, but I believe it's much smaller, that simply reject any racist claims.

    I agree people are right to call it out, but be sure and if you aren't sure, approach it in a way that doesn't immediately put the other person into a defensive position that they aren't willing to get out because they have to defend themselves, instead of the words or actions they took. Give them some space. This is very different from ignoring it or immediately taking a "you are racist" claim, both of which isn't helpful IMO.
     
  3. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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  4. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    GOP will be so upset if AOC loses. Who would become their bogeywoman?

    Let's face it, trump's punching bag was Elizabeth Warren - a woman but the problem with her was that she is white. Just didn't quite do it. But AOC - now that's perfect. A brown woman! And now he has four!

    He is going to try to ride that misogynistic and racist train all the way to 2020! I wouldn't be surprised if you were all board!
     
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  6. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    So ... do you think he'll win?

    Also do you think Warren is the Dems No. 1 hope?
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I think it is possible for him to win playing on racial hatred, yes. That in his calculation might be the only way he can win. He has to inspire the racists while getting those who are Republican to suspend the believe that he is a racist. Seems to be working so far. He has 42% of the country.
     
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  8. cml750

    cml750 Member

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  9. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    AOC is right.

     
  10. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    AOC is a live troll. You would like her.
     
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  11. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    I thought she was Native American (?)
     
  12. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Definitely Native American.
     
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  13. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    I like this response. Even in the cheering Trump crowd of "send her home" some of the folks looked uncomfortable perhaps harkening back to original American ideals of a nation of immigrants and a beacon for all etc.
     
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  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    100% correct. Lives will be lost because of Trump rhetoric.
     
  15. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    that... was not the original ideal of the nation... those were some people's ideals from one chapter of it in the middle. That ship sailed.
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Bruce and dachuda make me think of the old South or perhaps South African in days Reagan despised Mandela.
    Well, since you reject the American of a nation of immigrants and a beacon for all etc make your argument for American should be a whites only nation or a Christian Republic or whatever.
     
  17. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    WTF?

    Some people's ideas?

    So what do you think that big statue in New York is about?

    Thomas Paine echoed this view in The Rights of Man. “If there is a country in the world where concord... would be least expected, it is America,” he wrote. “Made up as it is of people from different nations, accustomed to different forms and habits of government, speaking different languages, and more different in their modes of worship, it would appear that the union of such a people was impracticable.” But he argued that if the government protects the equal rights of all, “there is nothing to engender riots and tumults,” and “all the parts are brought into cordial unison.”

    Thomas Jefferson , reflecting the general sentiment, said, “The present desire of America is to produce rapid population by as great importations of foreigners as possible.” On this point, Jefferson’s archrival, Alexander Hamilton, agreed. “Immigrants exhibit a large proportion of ingenious and valuable workmen,” he wrote, “who by expatriating from Europe improved their own condition, and added to the industry and wealth of the United States.”

    Are those the some people you are talking about?
     
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  18. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Even Reagan recognized the positive impact of immigration.
     
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  19. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    So in order to defend Trump, you'll ignore the actual history of our nation? Somebody is being played like a fiddle and it isn't the Dems.
     
  20. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Your teachers did you dirty. They taught you misconceptions.It's ok, it's pretty much standard to gloss over the reality of our country.

    Being a beacon for all wasn't the original ideal and you can't source that or prove it. The Beacon for all concept, the statue of liberty give me your tired huddled whatever came much later. The nation actually was rooted in English colonialism and was a place to send dissidents and fortune seekers, but it wasn't a free for all beacon for all sort of opperation. There was a chapter much much later where we were taking in mass immigration in order to fill the rest of the country up but the idea behind the country was based in liberal ideology and principle. And those people had to come through processing and what not. They weren't coming illegally. The idea of being a beacon for all isn't some founding part of the country. The country was founded with the idea of rebelling and setting up independent states. States that were largely divided and consisted of immigrants from very different backgrounds. But it was not some open free for all and some beacon on the hill for everyone. This is feel good nonsense. And it's bad for the country to just open your borders for all who want to come and even those communities probably wouldn't have wanted to open up for all to just waltz in. This wasn't the wild west at the time of the founding. This aspect and chapter of American history is exaggerated and romanticized by pro illegal immigration activists and conflated with a much later period. The 1700s are not the early 1900s.

    The term melting pot came in 1908, and was not official policy. A romantic vision yes. The statue of liberty's poem new collossus came in with the lines and was added after its construction on a plaque later in 1903 because it fit the political climate of the day:

    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    But this is long after the nation's founding which was a complex, messy affair, which was not focused on bringing in everyone from everywhere. Initially the country's efforts were to simply self govern within the colonial system, then it moved to a rebellion phase. They were not acting as a beacon like the poem suggests and not worried about this. Different chapters, all I'm saying.
     

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