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Ocasio-Cortez tweets and other news

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Do you think the president of the United States telling 4 women of color to “go back to their country” is racism that we should not call racist for the fear that folks from your side of the Isle will roll their eyes?

    I’m the guy who this morning said the media and Dems shouldn’t take the bait FYI but the cat got out of the bag and look... a spade is a spade. It’s a thing now and it’s racist. So sorry if you feel that way but it is what it is.

    It would be like us Dems complaining about how everything is about socialism = communism with the Republicans but then in the same breath talk nonstop about free college and 1,000 dollars a month for everyone. We don’t get to avoid having to discuss our positions on socialism when our party chooses to talk nonstop on social programs and Trump supporters shouldn’t be allowed to eye roll when Racism is discussed when you have the president of the United States using the most blatant racist tropes imaginable.

    If you don’t want to talk about race, I’d encourage you to reach out to your Republican representatives and ask them to talk about the issues you care about instead of injecting racism into the bloodstream of this country.

    Is that fair? If Joe Biden or the Dem front runner pushes obvious social programs that further socialism I’ll be happy to not eye roll that debate at that time.
     
  2. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    One wrong isn't even equal to the other.

    The other in the end is just another insult. After being on the internet for so long I kept being told by right wingers that words are just words and people shouldn't be all sensitive about it. Except for the word racist I guess, that word needs to be wiped off the internet.

    She lost her job temporarily and didn't lose status over this. The employer should never have fired her (as they realized when they offered her the job again) and this entire story is about how those group of people that tried to frame her as racist were wrong and that she, in the end, was vindicated.

    Plenty of ex-racists have moved past the label, in part because they don't double down and drop their pride and apologize for their wrongs and move forward.

    My point is that it isn't some permanent label and it doesn't always stick. At the end of the day, it's just another insult and insults usually only stick when there's some truth to them.

    You may be fatigued of the term but what is the alternative here? Just because someone is falsely called racist doesn't mean that it has stopped existing.
     
  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    FYI I’ve been critical of AOC a ton in the past but thought her response today was on point. Use this opportunity to turn the tables to make a quick point about actual policies that affect actual people, and make a clear delineation of how your positions make people’s lives better.

    Trump is trying to distract because he knows his policies suck. He knows he has to divide and conquer to stay in power and he is trying to pick his opponent who he think is the weakest. AOC and the 3 others have their flaws that’s for sure, but I think he’s dead wrong if he thinks these are the people to spend all of your energy on to paint as the enemy boogeyman.

    Today was a good sign that they aren’t just going to play that game and know how to properly counter his maniacal game of conning the American idiot.
     
    conquistador#11 likes this.
  4. adoo

    adoo Member

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    AOC calling out the demagogue

    " weak minds / leaders challenge loyalty to our country
    in order to avoid to challenging / debating policies

     
  5. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Lacy Clay is just pissed off because AOC is backing a progressive African woman against him. Just because Clay is African American does not mean that he should remain in office forever. Clay as an established Dem supports the old guard like Pelosi who is a big corporate fundraiser who funnels money to support him.
     
  6. TheresTheDagger

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    I wasn't aware you were the arbiter of what is or isn't a "wrong". I'll go with commandment #9. You know, this one:

    "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour"

    An insult. Well, slander is just an insult too right?

    You obviously didn't read all the article OR are purposefully avoiding talking about how this incident has affected not only HER life but the life of her family including her mother. And while the story did mention those that perpetrated the lie, you don't see much (actually nothing) about any legal or other consequences they have incurred. I'm guessing because there were none.

    You seem to have intimate knowledge of what is in the hearts of people that you know nothing of personally. Where did you get such a skill?

    Yes, as long as you're a left of center type of guy, you can be a repentant racist. All others are screwed.

    I'm fatigued of the OVERUSE of the term. Like when AOC threw shade at Pelosi recently about "singling out women of color".
     
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  7. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    When false witness is responsible for slavery and genocide get back at me, otherwise, I'm agnostic, the ten commandments are no law to me.

    If you want to consider insults slander, go right ahead.

    I believe something would more be considered slander if it is less in the realm of opinion and more in the realm of facts. like saying someone is child porno or that someone cheated on a life and fabricating that as a lie as slander...not "Hey, this guy is a racist." or "Hey, this guy is an idiot."

    If we are going to consider "You are racist" as slander then I believe that is the slippery of all slopes to slide down.

    So, I wonder where you stand on Maza v Crowder then? You know, Crowder that called Maza a bunch of names and insults and that led to Maza being harassed and targeted and doxxed? I guess Crowder should have been punished for his insults according to the logic you seem to apply here.

    I'm guessing the shame and embarrassment from them was enough punishment. I'm aware of this story and they were mocked and 'dragged' harder.

    Huh? I said that the racist label was dropped from people like Robert Byrd, I said nothing about him still being one in the secret depths of his mind, just that people stopped labeling him as a racist.

    As such, if a former KKK member can have the label dropped then it's the perfect example to show it's not a permanent label.

    Well, usually people on the right that are accused of it, like Trump, just double down or go with the "I HAVE A BLACK FRIEND" defense.

    If you sincerely ask for forgiveness, people will forgive, that's always been the case.

    Instead what we have is race being politicized where one side thinks showing any empathy to groups of people is fine and defend even the most vile and open racist statements...like we see in the Trump thread.

    But AOC never used the term racist against Pelosi?
     
  8. TheresTheDagger

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    Well the vast majority of the world isn't agnostic which is why many of our laws are based on biblical principles like the 10 commandments.

    Then again, if you're truly "agonstic" then the other commandments should be ignored too right?



    No, I'll go with the dictionary defintion. You'll notice the word "insult" isn't in there but "false spoken statements damaging to a person's reputation" are.

    slan·der
    noun
    Law
    noun: slander
    1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.
      "he is suing the TV network for slander"
    verb
    verb: slander;

    make false and damaging statements about (someone).
    "they were accused of slandering the head of state"


    Funny, I don't see any of that in the definition above. Meanwhile, calling someone an idiot hasn't gotten someone fired, doxxed, and created PTSD in an innocent person like I've shown false racist charges HAS.

    About as slippery a slope as denying racism exists.



    This wasn't a case of anyone being accused of being a racist so it is irrelevant to this conversation. Start a new thread, and I'll weigh in there.

    Completely disagree. Those shitheads didn't think twice about destroying this womans life or reputation over a burrito bowl. I'm guessing they are probably back to their old ways right now.

    First, not everyone stopped labeling him as a racist. Second, your quote was:
    'Plenty' implies a lot of folks. Name 10 more.


    You haven't sufficiently proven this point even in the case of Robert Byrd.

    You REALLY think you are qualified to speak for all conservatives who are accused of racism? That's interesting.

    Yeah sure. Name ANY 10 people who received forgiveness for making racist statements they retracted.

    I have no idea what you are talking about here.

    And Trump never used the term "people of color" against the Squad of 4. For that matter, he never mentioned race whatsoever.

    So he gets a pass too right?
     
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  9. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    ....No...firstly, agnosticism is simply saying "I don't know if there is a god or not" it's not swearing that there isn't like atheism is.

    Secondly, this is an entirely different conversation but let's just say for simplicity sake that condemnation for stealing or killing precedes the bible or isn't exclusive to it. The point being you can't really tell me to follow certain rules and laws of religion but ignore those yourself.

    Bringing this up in court would be laughable. Again, saying insults are slander would be a pretty slippery slope. Even so, your definition proves my point, you should look up the definition of statement as well.

    Does your definition summarize US law?

    Someone getting PTSD, is that really the standard we are going for here? People get PTSD from racism too, are you concerned about that?

    Nice dodge. You're so concerned about the topic while these last few posts have been off-topic of the thread.

    This is quite relevant to what we are discussing since my argument is that plenty on the right are hypocrites when it comes to this. They say words are just words and can't harm people and liberals are 'triggered' and SJWS and sensitive and should get over it...but when someone is called racist they flip their lid about it.

    So here you have a case of someone being verbally harassed by one person that was doxxed and harassed and threatened because of someone's words and I'm willing to bet your position isn't consistent.

    Proof?

    Let's play your game then.

    Duke Schneider
    Wernher Von Braun
    Christian Picciolini
    Derek Black
    Matthew Boger
    TJ Leyden
    Byron Widner
    Timothy Zaal
    Katie Mchugh
    Scott Sheperd

    All of these people are reformed or going through reformation and are allies in the fight against racism. Of course Von Braun was a literal Nazi who later became a civil rights activist.

    Can you name 10 more people that have been falsely accused of being named racist?

    Yeah, the people who didn't think Byrd was reformed are white republicans, the black community embraced him and voted for him, guess that counts for nothing.

    You haven't even proven your case, the person in question never lost status and only temporarily lost her job. You seem to forget your own standards there. Being emotionally distraught was never in your original point.

    Who said all republicans? Nice attempt, but I think you know I'm not silly enough to fall for that.

    That same list above has been forgiven and most of these people were in actual racist organizations. It really isn't that hard to say sorry. A good Christian would.

    Well, I'll just say that it isn't a coincidence that non-white demographics have been fleeing the GOP like the plague.

    Nope. Telling people to go back to their country is racist. It simply is.

    And that's the problem here, instead of realizing that this is harmful and hurtful and apologizing for it, let's act ignorant about it. You say harmful things and don't apologize for saying it then you will get animosity and vitriol back, that's how it works, how its always worked, it's always been that simple.
     
    #2089 JayGoogle, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  10. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    Nope
     
  11. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    These beaches have been spewing vitriol against trump since before he even knew their names. His tweets are hurtful but big deal. The outrage is laughable. Omar does nothing but hate on america. She is pathetic.
     
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  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    If you don't want to like Omar fine... go for it. However she opened up her statement yesterday talking about the country being founded on being created equal, and the rights of every human. Then later talked about her policy agenda in contrast to Trumps agenda. So I don't find her speaking up for the Rights of Americans and pushing for better policies for her constituents as "hating America". Criticizing Trump is being conflated with hating America.... which is freaking dangerous language to use.

    Look... she's critical of US policy and Trump... I get that, and I get that you don't like that she and other Democrats are critical.... but I vehemently have to call BS to this talking point going around today from Trump tv that being critical of policy equals being anti-American. I've seen this multiple times today on social media today from my Trumper friends & family. Its dangerous language.

    You were and have been critical of Obama. Nobody called you Anti-American because of that to the best of my knowledge. Maybe we defended Obama's policies just as you are perfectly able to defend Trump's policies but we never equated "The State" with Obama or a Democrat.... because that's sort of the textbook of fascism and what we've seen in dictatorships in the past. Trump is not not America. He's an American politician who runs an increasingly autocratic regime. I love America, and despise the Trump regime. That's my right in the first amendment, and part of what has been glorified in the history books with movements like the Boston Tea Party etc. where citizens and officials were allowed to criticize policy.

    So, I have no problem with you disapproving of Omar, or AOC... but please refrain from reciting this talking point that equates Trump with "The State" where criticizing Trump or criticizing policy of this administration is somehow Anti-American.

    Also... I know you aren't here in particular, but I also cannot stand bringing Israel into the equation where a Democrat disagreeing with Netanyahu's administration equals hating Israel and Jews. That's loaded to the extreme, and lets agree to not go there please.
     
    jcf likes this.
  13. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Also how many times has Trump himself taken direct aim at Sh*tting on America in a broad sense instead of critiquing policy?? "We are a laughing stock"... or taking sides with Putin over our own non-partisan intelligence community and law enforcement. Come on...

    I'm just saying those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Questioning patriotism because you critical of policy is just so out of wack to everything we stand for. Trump supporters... I know you love the guy but that's over the top fascism, and you gotta put a stop to that narrative coming out of Trumps propaganda factory.
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I'm not even worried about Omar or the squad. They wanted to be in Congress, and this kind of stuff comes with the territory. I'm not too pleased for the sake of all the hyphenated-Americans that their president is telling them that they can never really be American, no matter the passport they carry, how well they assimilate, or how many generations their family has been here, because they don't look like a Norman Rockwell painting (no shade on Mr. Rockwell).
     
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  15. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    Fair response. I have just seen her disparage the country too much to believe that she is not "anti-american". In fairness I will go search for some better quotes from her in an effort to like her more.

    I was/am very rarely critical of Obama publicly.
     
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  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Should we do the same with Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana?
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/25/us/false-racism-internet-mob-chipotle-video/index.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...-libel-million-racist/?utm_term=.a5e92adb3e55

    https://educationpost.org/white-teachers-heres-how-to-handle-being-called-racist/

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news...rgreen-state-students-demand-firing-professor

    It happens and it really isn't that uncommon, especially in the educational setting or on social media.

    That does not mean that racism shouldn't be a concern, as it clearly should be. However people are being quickly labeled and vilified as racists and are having their lives ruined in some cases.
     
  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Being labeled a racist in 2019 is a very damning label and there is a very strong stigma attached to it. The idea that it is easy to brush off from a societal standpoint is false. It isn't "just another insult". In the past it was just another insult but not anymore.

    I agree with you that because someone is falsely labeled a racist does not mean racism doesn't exist. Racism certainly exists, and as time passes and culture changes, so does what the term "racism" entails. With the advancement of rights for black people, brown people, women and the LGBT community.... and society as a whole, there are more opportunities for more groups to engage in racist behavior and there to be more debate as to what is and is not racist.
     
    King1 and TheresTheDagger like this.
  19. TheresTheDagger

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    While we're at it, Delaware, Maryland, DC, and Connecticut too right. :)
     
  20. TheresTheDagger

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    This was EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. Racism is horrible. So is false accusations of the same.

    Apparently, JayGoogle thinks false accusations are just "insults".

    I'm hoping Karma isn't paying too close attention to his comments here.
     

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