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Obama bugged Trump Tower before election

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    because they dropped the case. why would you drop a case where you found proof of criminal behavior? Unless you are claiming Manafort got the Hillary treatment and was told all your crimes are ok.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Link to they 'dropped the case'?
    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slat...i_surveillance_from_2014_until_this_year.html

    There was on going surveillance from 2014-2016.

    It seems like conservative leaving posters since Trump forget how long investigations take.
     
  3. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/paul-manafort-government-wiretapped-fisa-russians/index.html

    IF there is no evidence then yes this is total bullshit that they kept spying on someone for 3 years.
     
  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    So basically you are only assuming nothing was found as opposed to your original statement that nothing was found? To answer your question... perhaps not enough was found. Or perhaps there were other reasons it wasn't pursued further. What is clear is that there was enough to reopen the investigation.


    Again, more assumptions on your part. Why can't you re-open an investigation? Perhaps new evidence aligned with, supported, or strengthened previous findings. LOL... "big brother bullshit"...
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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  6. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    do you not know how to read? Depends on their justification for reopening the case.

    i was quite clear. but the FBI should explain what their justification was for restarting surveillance at the exact point Trump won the nomination.
     
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The FEDS had been investigating and wiretapping Manafort for years before Trump was President and before Trump was even a serious candidate.

    Further, Manafort had a home in Virginia which was likely wiretapped and has been raided.

    Manafort was brought on the Trump team, and met with numerous Russian operatives and other Russians with connections to the Russian government, and Manafort starts being wiretapped again.

    It appears that all the proper clearances were met.
     
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  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    First of all... if someone is engaged in illegal interactions with Russia then yes, I do want them to keep investigating. Especially if it turns out the interactions involved our democracy. And that is what is being investigated (and now reported on). I know you are so invested in supporting Trump that you don't want to even consider the possibility that his campaign, and possibly Trump were guilty of this... but I think most Americans want this investigated and if he and his campaign are not guilty, great!
     
  9. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    LOL... you are already calling this "Big Brother Bullshit".
     
  10. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Sounds to me like Trump may have divulged privileged information regarding an ongoing investigation back in March. He was most likely briefed about the Manafort wiretap and in his own uniquely ignorant breach of protocol blabbed about it. Much like when he divulged classified information to the Russians after firing Comey.

    This is not something his supporters should be crowing about as a win. I'm sure Mueller is on it.
     
    mtbrays and Nook like this.
  11. Anticope

    Anticope Member

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    Manafort was wiretapped because of a warrant signed by a judge, meaning there was enough evidence at the time to convince said judge to sign off, but I have no doubt that the next line of defense from the Trump cult is to attack this judge as a liberal/Obama stooge, so I look forward to that. On top of this, anyone with functioning brain cells knows that Trump's tweet back in March or whenever was designed to imply that Obama had conspired in some sort of Watergate-type espionage on a political opponent, which there is absolutely zero proof of at this point. The dancing and celebrating from the Dear Leader supporters because Manafort has been under surveillance since 2014 is pretty hilarious though. The right-wing delusion knows no bounds.
     
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  12. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    DO you not know how to read?

    Depends on their justification for reopening the case. You can't start spying on someone because 2 yrs ago you suspected them of something and convicted them of nothing. That's some big brother bullshit.
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    #1 We don't know that Trump Tower was wiretapped based on what we have seen. What we know is that Paul Manafort was wiretapped and supposedly his residence was wiretapped. Some quickly pointed out that Manafort had a residence IN Trump Tower. However, his primary residence was NOT in Trump Tower but in Virginia. The Virginia home was also the one raided, and the FBI found that he had a storage facility and it was also raided.

    #2 Manafort was wiretapped, there doesn't at this time appear to be any evidence that Trump was wiretapped. I suppose Trump was wiretapped while talking to Manafort. In that situation what is the FBI to do? Stop listening? It also sounds like the FBI had reason to be watching Manafort. He was meeting with a number of people that were connected to Putin and the Russian government and had done lobbying on behalf of Russian interests.

    #3 I doubt there is a smoking gun or it likely would have come to light, sounds like a lot of circumstantial evidence.

    #4 There are several reports that Muller has told Manafort that he will be indicted. We will have to wait and see.
     
  14. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Depends on their justification for re-opening the case? You're right. Can't wait to see what that was myself.

    You are aware that Manafort's house was served a "no knock" warrant recently, right? You know that wiretaps and warrants are not allowed willy-nilly, right? Judges have to see evidence supporting the reasons for said wiretaps and warrants?

    Sounds like big brother was on to something.
     
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  15. Nook

    Nook Member

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    We don't know that they found nothing in 2014, what we know is that they did not find enough for an indictment or they decided that it was more beneficial to not let it be known that Manafort was under investigation to see if they could gather more information. It is conjecture, in a legal sense to state they found "nothing" or that he wasn't a "criminal".

    The case was reopened after Manafort started meeting with Russian nationals with known ties to the Russian government and were strongly suspected of being Russian operatives. They had a responsibility to investigate. They appear to have gotten clearance from a federal Judge and at this point there is no evidence of the agency going beyond the scope of their rights.

    I actually agree with you, I too worry about the government going beyond their powers to infringe on the rights of US citizens. Unfortunately GW Bush's administration blew the doors off our basic protections, and the Patriot Act and similar legislation has been a disaster. President Obama didn't do enough to cut back on the powers of the government and was called out on it by some. Having said that, the FBI went to a federal judge, relied on a law in place, received all the proper clearances and (at this point) appear to have conducted proper and Constitutional wiretapping.

    Trump wasn't wiretapped based on what has been released. It appears that any conversations the FBI heard with Trump were from when they wiretapped Manafort. I think a fair question to be asked is why would President Trump have any substantial bond with Manafort? That doesn't look good at all for Trump. Then the sudden dismissal of Manafort only lends credence to the belief that Manafort was doing something wrong.

    Ultimately people believe and hear what they want. If you want to believe Trump is a crook, then you will believe that. If you want to believe that Hilary Clinton received special treatment, then you will believe that......... hell we have people now arguing that Russia and Putin aren't that bad and their interests are not counter those of the United States.
     
  16. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    There was a new FISA warrant in 2016.
     
  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Because...crooked Hillary and the deep state.
     
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    So this is yet another tangent that tries to justify the president's exaggerated lies?
     
  19. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    So cf.net, is Trump more honest today than yesterday?
     
  20. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Nothing has changed to make him more honest. He was dishonest in his claims about wiretapping.
     

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