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NYTimes op-ed on Liberals not understanding Conservative

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Invisible Fan, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Today's conservative is one or more of the following:

    1) A very greedy person to a point of lacking moral character
    2) A white nationalist
    3) A closed-minded rube who has been taught to hate liberals by propaganda news sources run by groups 1) and 2)

    These people are the bane of our country. They really are. The days of respectable conservatives are long gone. Instead we have the sickened group of people who are willing to destroy the country to achieve their individual aims. These people are the enemy and we need to start thinking about a future where we treat them as such. Liberals and moderates need to understand the threat. I think making plans for a day when the right tries to seize control of this country is a possibility. Maybe not in 3 years when Trump loses and declares the election fraudulent, but it eventually will happen.

    I think the left needs to start thinking about organizing a militia and using the 2nd Amendment as intended, to protect against the tyranny that the right can bring about - its something we see in history over and over and it's foolish to think it won't happen here.
     
    #21 Sweet Lou 4 2, Dec 9, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  2. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Honestly . . .. You ask the general public what is a conservative is . . .. . or even what a liberal is .. . you will get a mixed bag

    Most people - Even Self Identified Conservatives will give an answer of what conservativism is . .. that will look NOTHING like what a conservative was during the Goldwater era
    And . . . Most Liberals would probably no be JKF Liberals . . .

    We see far far more moving to the extremes as well .. . .
    We are definitely a CLOSED MOUTH DON'T GET FED society

    Right now . .. . If you can NAME a thing . .. you can control it
    Coal Miners expecting 70000 a year jobs with barely a high school education, and refusing retraining, is not seen as ENTITLEMENT behavior
    But
    A Person who worked for 40 yrs . .paying into Social Security and expects Social Security in return is considered ENTITLEMENT behavior

    Rocket River
     
  3. Bob Barker 007

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    I tend towards the conservative side of things and find your characterization of conservatives very insulting, because one cannot place me and many other conservatives into groups like that. It is not even worth talking to people about politics anymore because there is no middle ground, even though I am willing to compromise on some things. I feel that compromise is the only way to move forward, but it just seems like it will never happen.
     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  4. TheresTheDagger

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    I find opinion pieces like this humorous. In this case, it's like a scientist attempting to examine a specimen.

    Look, if we want to 'understand' each other better then go talk to someone who doesn't share your viewpoint. That's the old fashioned way.

    Oh, and 1 more thing. Be respectful. Simple really.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Obviously the article was a little too deep for some folks.

    It was a pretty good read on where we are as a country.

    DD
     
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I think a lot of the angst bandied about here, and elsewhere, regarding the state of the country is justified. Heck, there's a jar full of angst on the mantle in my living room. I periodically toss the jar into the recycle bin and put up a fresh clean one, ready for more angst. For those who don't know, here's a definition of the word, angst.

    "...a feeling of deep anxiety or dread, typically an unfocused one about the human condition or the state of the world in general."

    Yeah, I suffer somewhat from that feeling. Not 24/7, or I'd got crazy, which is why I park a lot of it in that jar. The "cure," or at least a major step in a good direction? Everyone getting out and voting come election time. In Texas, for example, it is my humble opinion that there are a hell of a lot more Democrats, and independents who could be persuaded to support a progressive agenda, than people realize. The state is largely ignored by the DNC, except as a stop on the fund raising trail. Not fund raising for elections in Texas, but for elections elsewhere. In other words, Democrats need to be better organized, and not just in Texas. They need to get out the Democratic vote everywhere in the country, and identify independent voters who lean progressive and get them to vote. When there is a big turnout, Democrats tend to win. Win enough in 2018 to change the balance of power in some of the purple states and attack the sophisticated gerrymandering that has helped a minority party, the GOP, to continue to win elections. There isn't a lot of time before the 2018 vote. Everyone out there complaining about the trump/GOP Congress debacle should be busy. Very busy. There's no time to waste.
     
    Rocket River likes this.
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Conservatives are about to elect a child predator to the Senate and just elected a man who doesn't understand the difference between life and health insurance into the office that is in charge of the world's largest bureaucracy and while commanding the world's largest military.

    Forgive the many rational humans who might have a slight negative opinion of conservative voters currently.
     
  8. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    I think there are more than the three but these three dominate the current discussion. #1 dominates it with lobbying, completely undermining the average American family. #2 dominates it with trolling, harassing people with bigotry and then calling them snowflakes when they react. #3 are the know-nothings, they dominate by pushing wingnut propaganda sites like Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, InfoWars, Fox News, etc. and calling any other viewpoint liberal and fake news regardless of the content.

    There are certainly much more than these including the full on bigots, the subtle bigots, the gun nuts, the pseudo intellectuals, the social conservatives, the fiscal conservatives, and the non-interventionist libertarian types.

    Sadly, the actual conservatives are so embarrassed by what their party has become that they no longer engage due to the rightful avalanche of derision that their party is receiving. Unfortunately, they're still voting for the likes of Trump which is the problem.
     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    That was a long complicated read just to say conservatives don't like change.

    The funny thing is simplifying conservative mindset to that is insulting
     
  10. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Conservatives serve a purpose on questioning how things are paid for.

    Unfortunately they are taken advantage of by people who don't want to pay for anything the government does
     
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I would replace 'insulting' with 'deserving' at this point and that almost applies to both sides.

    It's all about tribalism. Everyone changes their principles to win an argument now a days. There is no such thing as conservative values anymore. It's just a political term to rile up a base.
     
  12. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    If only that was true.
     
  13. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Bullshit, with all due respect. It is the Republican Party that's busy, right now, blowing up the deficit by over a trillion dollars. When this supposed growth, which doesn't need the "stimulation" of this massive tax cut (President Obama left the economy in excellent shape, getting healthier month by month, and growing, with very low unemployment), doesn't offset the massive tax cut giveaway (it won't), what do you think is going to happen? They will attempt to slash Medicare, Medicaid, and other needed social programs. What will you say then? What will you say when trump's time in office begins to hurt you. It will, regardless of the fantasy you're living in now. In my opinion.
     
  14. TheresTheDagger

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    And what "tribe" do you belong to?
     
  15. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    I think we all should belong to the anti anti-basic decency, moral, and fact tribe. But that seems to be too much to ask.
     
  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    This thread is part of my evolving yet constant notion that the rural / urban divide has been a constant debate our nation since its inception. It'll move beyond race eventually but the arguments thrown now or 80 years ago will still be the same. There will always be people who like what a slower paced culture country life provides rather than a hustle and bustle that dominates city life with "cosmopolitan" trend setting and values bending. The whole tax issue, which can escalate explosively, is the economic side of a cold war that will attempt to shift and morph which Government vision gets the upper hand. Ideally, power should be shared jointly as we are of the same vision, just different in mindset and execution (that collaboration actually a good thing), but that's not how people have been seeing it. Right now, it's a battle of the bands to see who can highjack the mike the longest.

    States like Ohio with their blend of blue and red forshadow the futility of a split union. I highly doubt fragments of the US would even run more efficiently than the current black hole that's DC.

    I think the high level pontificating in the op/ed does clarify how "Progressivism" is an affront to Conservative living and even this persistent meme of "Liberals destroying America".

    Whoever coined the last one seemed to have collectively meshed the gun-toting love for freedom with defending the Homefront into a seething and simmering anger for their blue neighbor. Bravo. Well done.

    Too bad they couldn't sloganize a catchy one-liner to stem the heroin and suicide epidemics endemic of this "Liberal Destruction".

    Easier to point fingers and all that.
     
    #36 Invisible Fan, Dec 12, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  17. TheresTheDagger

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    Well, I can't speak for every conservative, but the only seething and simmering anger I have are for those closed minded folks that talk down to and patronize me (Moral superiority and all that...liberal or conservative).

    In my own experience, I find that kind of expression to come from ...shall we say...a certain viewpoint.
     
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    No one likes that, but I'm not going to claim that "Conservatives are actively destroying America" and then disappear when asked why their fav personalities or like-minded people say it.

    Just bugs the hell out of me to demonize the neighbor even when polling shows how closer we're aligned than further apart.
     
  19. TheresTheDagger

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    Agreed.

    It's interesting to me how "trolling" on the internet is so prevalent and pervasive. That is the place I see this type of behavior mostly...and how people who would NEVER do that in real life feel so apt to do so online anonymously. The internet has certainly revealed my fellow man's ugliness to a much greater degree than I ever suspected existed. I'm an optimist at heart, but the behavior exhibited online has certainly given me pause at times.
     
  20. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Some of the posts put up here by members I consider trolls are so outrageous, so consistently repetitively bizarre, so unrelentingly absurd, and after a while, so entirely predictable that I can't help but wonder if they are mentally ill, or are "bots" programmed to assume this sort of behavior for reasons I'm too tired to get into at the moment, but none of them good. Is it better to simply ignore them?

    I have some dozens of the worst on ignore. By "the worst," I mean those who consistently make bigoted posts aimed at various minorities, and/or posts made out of a meanness of spirit I personally couldn't live with, and I can see no reason to continue to engage in "conversation" after posting paragraphs aimed at reasoning with them, only to get a one liner response exactly like the half dozen one liner responses they tossed away before, as they clearly ignore any attempt at reasoned debate. "Reasoned debate," in their minds, apparently, being a one liner agreeing with them. Any other response that's not going along with their meme being, all too often, treated with contempt.

    I've been here too long now to put up with it. Instead of an enjoyable (at least to me) to read back and forth like you and Invisible Fan are having here, takes with some substance and nuance, and interesting takes from others, RocketRiver with an good one earlier on this page, or CometsWin's response to Sweet Lou a few posts back, I'm expected to take seriously posts like the following from a member who used to be, based on my recollection, a far different person. It's why I haven't given up on him/her. With all due respect to pgabriel:
    The current "incarnation" of pgabriel consistently ignores substance, and replies with posts like these, or even less, that read like they were taken (at least to me) straight from Brietbart "News." The meme of "the put upon trump supporter." The "woe is me" mindset of the "misunderstood" supporter of the creature who occasionally inhabits the Oval Office. It reminds me of a rhyme I recall from when I was a kid complaining about not getting my way. It goes (thanks, YouTube) something like this:

     

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