Not bringing Cole in the 7th Inning...

I won't question how you would react specifically, but I would be willing to bet a lot of money that if Cole came in and gave up a homer there would be plenty of pissed people posting about how he was on short rest or came in with runners on base, etc. This is a sports message board on the internet....

 

not true. We knew harris was figured out. Pitched 4 of the first 6 games and they got to him the game before. I was pissed that Harris relieved Greinke. Im sure many were. It did not feel right at the moment and it burned us.

I still put the blame squarely on the putrid offense. The Astros never got over that mental hurdle of situational hitting. Watched WAY too many fat pitches and swung at pure garbage constantly. Give credit to the Nationals pitchers but it was also a failure with the bats.

 

Or....we could have hit with RISP...

DD

 

I'm not sure the relevancy of Greinke's HoF credentials, given he didn't earn those by virtue of his 2019 season. Far more relevant, at least for me, was his inability to sustain success beyond the sixth inning this season, especially post-trade. I won't repeat those numbers (they're in my previous post) but they're stark enough it should have been on Hinch's radar. And while Greinke does have success against a line-up the third time (almost all of it in the NL, I'll add), this was uniquely treacherous given how good Rendon and Soto, specifically, are - and how good those three had been in the postseason. You had to neutralize them and had the best pitcher on the planet in your bullpen.

Once the inning started - with Greinke - I was fine with how Hinch managed it. I just never would've let Greinke see the 7th.

Ideally, sure. But you're not asking Cole to pitch extensively; you're asking him to retire three batters. That's it. Fire everything he has into 15-20 more pitches. He could've done that - it was his bullpen day. That's what makes this unique from any previous Justin Verlander - or any other starter-in-relief appearance. It was 3 outs. Period. Get them and the game is likely over. Use Harris/Osuna to mop up the 8th and 9th.

Not to mention, going from Greinke to Cole is such an extreme change, you possibly had an added advantage in doing so.

 

If Hinch is making managerial decisions with a thought about fan reaction, he needs to be fired. He has to do what *he* think his best for this team. I don't think he mismanaged the 7th *once it started.* For me, his mistakes were: 1) leaving Greinke in to start the 7th; 2) not lifting Osuna to start the 8th.

That doesn't get talked about much - but bringing Osuna back for the 8th was a giant miscalculation, too. These managers all fall in love with the four-out "save" and we've seen closers *routinely* fail to deliver them. The single most important thing they had to do in the 8th was keep the score 3-2 and Gerrit Cole was in the bullpen facing off against, IIRC, 7-8-9 hitters (may've been 8-9-1). Instead, Osuna gives up another run - and at that point, 3-2 to 4-2 might as well have been 9-2. That run was huge.

 

They're 224-126 (including postseason) since Cora left. They've won three playoff series, lost two, and are 14-12 overall in the playoffs. You can, I'm sure, isolate "terrible" moments - but, generally, nothing about these past two years has been "terrible."

 

I don't understand why that matters - is the answer he should've done nothing?... Yes, lose and it's possible decisions will be second-guessed. Nature of the beast. But that doesn't make all decisions equal.

Quick question - can you name the last time you used "Greinke" and "cruise control" in the same sentence?... Probably the near no-hitter against the Mariners?... Any before that? Probably not - and, this goes without saying... but he wasn't facing the Mariners in game 7.

I'm not assuming it would've worked; I simply believe it was a better course of action. And, again - I don't really care about second-guessing. Anything that doesn't work - even if it's the right move - will be second-guessed. I will say, once Greinke started the inning, I had no issue with how Hinch managed the rest of the 7th.

 

I think one of the more underrated stories of this postseason was that the entire team was, generally, gassed. Winning 107 games, while being chased by the A's and trying to secure HFA added up. And then having to face a murderers row of pitchers from the Rays, Yankees and Nationals, and hitters from the Yankees and Nationals......... This team had its foot on the accelerator all year and I think the unrelenting toughness of this particular postseason, where they had to *earn* everything... I think it took its toll.

They were all gassed.

 

Yes. This will apparently come as shock to you, but injured players, in many ways, work harder than healthy players because in addition to getting back into game shape, they have to navigate the mental aspect of rehab and recovery. They're not at a tropical resort luxuriating.

And for many of these players, this was their third consecutive extended postseason - all those extra, high-stress games add up. This is also the second year in a row in which they couldn't ease up in September - the As have chased them deep into both of the last two seasons, and this year, they had to fight off three teams that won at least 101 games so they could secure HFA.

They've played 530 games since 2017, the most in baseball. I did not say, nor do I believe, it was the *only* reason they fell 8 out short - but I think it was a factor in their not playing up to expectations consistently throughout this postseason.

 

Right?! AJ’s plan was sound. You take Harris out, for Cole, you end up with Osuna or Smith closing. If we didn’t score runs, it wouldn’t have mattered.

 

And I have zero doubt that every single player on that team and every single coach was "all hands on deck" too. Everybody reacts to losing in different ways. Cole is a gamer, he wants the ball and he didn't get the chance to secure a win for his team. Can't blame him for being upset. They just lost the damn World Series. Whether he's upset over the situation or Hinch not inserting him in the 7th remains to be seen. Him and Hinch had a gameplan, and at this point there is NO REASON to believe otherwise. Anything else is just assumptions.

This is so ridiculous. Cole is our ace and you want him with the ball yes. But him coming into the game during the middle of an inning with a runner on first, something he has never done, there is absolutely no guarantee he gets those two outs without giving up runs. Gotta trust your high leverage guys to get you out of that situation, or Greinke who had been cruising, and then give the ball to Cole in the 8th with the lead.

 

Why does it have to be someone who was as pissed? I read there were several players on the floor distraught, possibly in tears; Bregman being one of them.

 

I do not blame Hinch for failing to bring in Cole in the 7th. If I question him on anything for that inning it is pulling Greinke out maybe one hitter too early. Cole has ZERO relief appearances in his entire MLB career. I'm not asking that guy to come in on 2 days rest to a situation with a runner on base. Harris was the right decison... and he got beat on a good pitch. That's baseball.

 

Harris didn't eff it up. Grienke definitely deserved one more batter. We weren't winning that game 2-1.

 

Apparently many posters in this thread assumed the Astros could had won 2-1 had Cole been brought in.

 

I think OP is especially heated bc he was present and had a vibe. Cole was ready & willing to close the door. But ultimately. We just ran out of talent. I'm still not over it.

Edit. For the record I would of liked Urquidy first up in relief bc of Harris results vs same batter night prior. Who knows. Long off season

 

I haven’t seen one post with that take. Hinch is not infallible. He ****ed up in game 7 pretty hard. Is it why we lost? No, if you look at the big picture. We lost because of the mental block we had, as a team, at the plate. However, Hinch sealed our fate with the terrible decision to bring in Harris and then also by leaving Osuna out there on a sizzle plate. The latter was just mind boggling stupid. And yes through all of this Cole fell completely through the cracks and never pitched. TERRIBLE. Those decisions are worthy of serious scrutiny and rightfully condemned by Astro fans. We all like Hinch. Saying you hated his game 7 follies doesn’t change that. He ****ed up.

The real issue though was indeed the offense at home. The Astros deserve every bit of this loss. They absolutely floundered over and over again with the bats. I know you gotta credit the Nationals pitchers but the Astros were mental midgets in the WS and they lost because of it. It’s painful. Hopefully it makes them better.

 

There are posts in this thread that imply that bringing in Cole would have won the game (or at least gone a long way towards winning the game). Clearly the main issue was the lack of hitting with RISP.