Not bringing Cole in the 7th Inning...

We had 2 chances to win at home. I wont get over this for a while.

 

Thank you for showing this. It was a very interesting read. I was actually referencing in game statistics that showed individual starting pitcher ERAs on full rest vs short rest. I think the one I saw was JV's ERA and he had a higher ERA on short rest. The data you showed is compelling and argues in favor of using starters on short rest. My only counters would be that it is a small sample size (only 66 innings) and that once you remove Bumgarner and Randy Johnson, the ERA balloons up to 4.82.

 

This is an astonishingly fair and objective reply for a sports messageboard. Also, I agree that it is a small sample, but it indicates that even in view of the totality of the available evidence we have been unable to show that relieving on short rest is associated with decreased performance. If there is an increased risk, it must be pretty small and hard to find.

 

So you think the mistake was the manager should have pull a pitcher after giving up 1 hit, 0 run in 6 innings with a pitch count in the low 70? Man I have posters calling me clueless in here but this chit right here is effed up and clueless. I say it before and I’ll say it again. Only mistake was taking Greinke out without letting him finish the 7th or at least let him face Kendrick. If he give up a walk or hit to Kendrick, I get yanking Greinke out. But not after 6 innings of 1H, 0R and on a 70 PC.

 

If you knew me IRL, you would know that most people describe me that way. The way I talk to people on forums is the same way I would talk to them face to face. I try to be objective and try to keep an open mind.

I do agree with your points here. There is no evidence that short rest decreases performance. Perhaps for an individual but not as a general rule.

 

I'm not forgetting anything. He'd made 37 starts this year; 22 did not get past the sixth inning. He was facing the Nationals' best hitters a third time. Even without concerns about Greinke's capacity to pitch deep into games, a switch for those three - especially if you have a pitcher (like Cole) to contrast Greinke's stuff - would've been an ideal time to switch. It was a missed opportunity from Hinch.

 

Yes.

What's clueless about thinking a 36-year old pitcher with a 5.30 ERA/1.65 WHIP in his previous four postseason starts - which included an opponents' OPS of .930 - had pitched well beyond expectations and shouldn't be pushed - ESPECIALLY if you could replace him with the best pitcher on the planet who would be facing the Nationals 2-3-4 hitters?

Some fans just hate out-of-the-box thinking, I guess? But if the Astros get through the 7th, they probably win the game. So who would you rather pitch in that moment: Greinke or Cole? Yeah, wanting Cole is EFFED UP, man.......

 

Too easy to second guess Hinch on this. Greinke was absolutely cruising and had the Nats off balance all night. Greinke was on fire in every aspect of his game. It truly looked to be an outing of destiny. His pitching and fielding was awe inspiring.

Say Hinch pulls Greinke after 6 and Harris or Osuna ***** the bed. How many of you would have said why in the world did he pull Greinke? Probably most everyone.

Hinch had a plan. Looks like he wanted Cole to pitch the last two innings. He needed Harris to do his job, a job that he was the absolute best at for the entire season. Sucks, but It didn’t work out.

I’m going to blame the bats before anything. The lack of hits with RISP hurt the team tremendously. They were horrible most of the postseason, but had a chance in game 7 to erase all of the negative. They. Didn’t. Get. It. Done. Period.

Look at Springer, Altuve and Bregman’s Numbers in the last two games. Awful.

 

They should fire Hinch if he's making decisions based on potential fan backlash. He needs to do what's best for the team.

Then that was a terrible plan because the most important inning of that game was clearly the 7th with Eaton, Rendon and Soto due up. You win the game in *that* inning and he didn't manage it with the urgency it required.

Sure; there's never just 1 thing that leads to a loss. But he had the capacity to protect a 2-0 lead and Hinch didn't maximize it.

 

Yes, he should have brought in Cole and then had Cole failed there would have been a thread titled "not bringing in Harris in the 7th inning..."

 

At least A.J will always have sleepless nights thinking about this game. Similar to Jerry West always thinking about his NBA Finals losses as a a player.

Ever since Alex Cora left, the in game management has been terrible. Charlie Morton pitching 3 innings in Game 7.

One thing I do know is if Gerrit would've come in, the position players I really believe will be relaxed and pumped up about hitting. It would've boosted the whole team. Similar to Charlie Morton pitched those 3 innings in Game 7.

 

If a player isn't pumped up by playing in game 7 of the World Series and needs a particular pitcher to come in in order to get pumped up, then that player should be jettisoned

ETA - Astros scored ZERO runs with Morton on the mound in game 7 and got ZERO hits

 

Delete

 

Sure he did. Starting the inning, he had a HoF pitcher in total command of a game, who gets more dominant as a game goes on, and with a low pitch count. He kept him in the game as opposed to a Will Harris who'd been dominant but had given up a HR the day before to Rendon, who he'd have to face again. And over Osuna who had several bad postseason outings including giving up a game-tying HR in a closeout game the last series. And over Cole, who has never pitched out of the bullpen and never pitched on 3 days' rest let alone of 2 days' rest.

When Greinke gave up the walk, Hinch had the same 4 options but with a less-dominant Greinke, Harris not having to face Rendon, same Osuna, and Cole who also had never come into a game with runners on base. I'd have been fine with staying with Greinke there or going to Harris as one of MLB's best firemen. Relative to the start-of-the-inning decision, Osuna was probably a worse choice coming in with people on base and Cole was definitely a worse choice.

I've seen a lot about Cole telling Hinch he's ready - that's irrelevant to me. Every player will say they are ready and want the ball. Verlander said the same in Game 4 against Boston in 2017 and promptly came in mid-inning and gave up a 2-R HR that made a 2-1 lead into a 3-2 deficit in the first batter he faced. And this year, he was ready and wanted the ball in Game 4 vs. TB. He's just as elite as Cole and his word is just as reliable. That's what all pitchers will say/do - doesn't mean it's a good idea. Cole was a wildcard and no one knew how that was going to go, so he should only have been used if your actual reliable known-quantity bullpen pitchers had to be used already (Harris, Osuna). If you can get through the game with Greinke/Harris/Osuna, you do it.

 

That’s not what I meant at all. What I’m saying is no matter what Hinch did in this situation, whether it bring in Cole, or whomever, if it failed it would have been second guessed.

Why did he need to manage with urgency? Greinke was on cruise control.

You’re assuming if he brought in Cole that it would have worked. If it didn’t, you and everyone else would have second guessed that move too.

I’m not happy the Astros lost. Is there something that could have been done to win it all? Sure, several things. Cole could have pitched better in game 1, JV could have pitched better in his two starts, the bats could have been much better the whole series at home and maybe AJ could have done something differently in game 7.

The Astros did not play good baseball consistently in the postseason. It’s sucks for all of us because they still had a chance. I don’t want to second guess this thing to death. It’s too easy and it doesn’t mean that things would have turned out differently.

The players were put in position to perform imo and they didn’t do it.

 

While I like the tongue in cheek, I would have made a thread titled "not bringing in Osuna in the 7th inning". Given the situation and overuse, Harris was the 4th best option from what I can tell? In no particular order, 1) Keep Greinke in 2) Let Cole start the 7th 3) Let Osuna start the 7th or waiting in the wings 4) Bring Harris in for the hundredth time in the series.

 

Harris pitched in 4 out of 6 games against the Yankees, and no one seemed to have an issue with it. He pitched 5 out of 7 in this series, but was he really overused at this point? In Game 4, he threw 7 pitches. Got 2 days off. In game 6, he threw 5 pitches.