I never have been a fan of lebron. Respect his game but hated him. I recognize that MJ is the goat and he was amazing. If I’m starting a team and I could choose one player in history to build around it’s LeBron.
I think they were about to kill him when he mentioned that Jordan lost to Nick Anderson I think that's sports journalism 101, never mention Jordan was there in 1995 or you will die
Those are always interesting questions. It's not a GOAT conversation but it's a question about who would you draft 1st without knowing who their eventual teammates would be. A fantasy draft using the entire NBA history as your lottery pool. The idea would be to get the player that could lead your team if you had bad teammates or good teammates or great teammates selected to go alongside him in later rounds. I think it's been proven Lebron needs a weak conference and at least 2 other all stars and he wants full control. Despite the narrative that he makes his teammates better, the reality is players usually regress next to him. Magic needs a weak conference and all timer teammates. Jordan proved he needed a 2 way all star. Kareem proved he needed 2 different all timer perimeter players. Russell had like a billion HOF teammates. Wilt couldn't win anything. Dr. J had Moses and multiple all star teammates etc etc. So if the objective is to win based on your first draft pick regardless of who is drafted in 2nd, 3rd rounds etc. There are very few examples of players who could win without any big time talent as help. I don't think there's a single example of any player being able to sustain contention without regular help. In other words, it comes down to impact. Bias and all. I think my top 2 would be Hakeem and Bird and Duncan/KG right on the outside and MAYBE Durant if i got him playing consistent D. If i draft Jordan, who knows if i can get a Pippen caliber teammate for him ever. It'll be fun watching him average 40ppg but i aint winning. If i get LeBron, who knows if i end up in the WC level of competition and he'll just ditch my team and join someone else where it's easier. Without teammates, it'll be fun watching him average a triple double but i aint winning. If i draft Kobe, what are the odds i can get a dominant front line to help him or if he will work with another good perimeter player? 35ppg but i aint winning. Magic or DR J like LeBron have a weakness like shooting and playing defense only when they need to. I ain't winning. Wilt? Oscar? They'll get theirs and i won't win. Harden and Curry are liabilities on D. Westbrook is not a winner. Others are too injury prone Etc. Larry Bird took a garbage little Indiana State to the NCAA championship. Then as a rookie led the Celtics to the ECF with what is i believe still the biggest turnaround in NBA history with just rookie Bird as an addition- he wins the entire thing by his 2nd year. So before the dominant front line came along. Bird was proving he could lead your team far. Can play the 3 in past eras and play the 4 in todays era or any era. Inside-Outside-Shooting-Passing-Pesky D-Quick hands. Hakeem and KG are just so valuable b/c of their positions/size and all around ability to dominate offensively and defensively with versatility. Duncan and i suppose Kareem just age so well and will give you 2 decades of attributes that help you win games no matter what your roster looks like.
This is beyond idiotic. Michael Jordan's titles were only PART of his legacy. He was by far the greatest skilled athlete in sports history. Lebron's nowhere near the caliber player. We're talking about a guy who MADE guys into superstars, not left elsewhere to join other established superstars. The league now isn't close to what it was back then. You can lliterally have no go to move & still average 20+ in today's era. No comparison
He has dominated the league for 15 years, and he's still the best player in the league at year 15th. It's funny looking at Jordan's career, the only good team he beat was Detroit and they got old by the time the Bulls beat them. Which other team did he face have 3 all stars? Meanwhile Lebron is facing against GSW who broke the regular season record and has 4 (actually 5) all stars suddenly he is a cream puff. At least Lebron has played in the league for 15 years, he always showed up every year. MJ quit basketball two times how can he be the GOAT? Ok his dad died, so what? How many athletes have loved ones dying I mean Ryan Anderson's wife killed herself how come he didn't retire to play baseball? And what was even the excuse for the 2nd retirement? Did Bill Russell retire after ring 6? Dude doesn't have as much passion for the game as you might think.
Anybody that even puts Lebron in the same conversation as MJ as GOAT needs their head examined. Lebron is a great basketball player, but there is no question who I'd trust in Game 6 vs the '98 Jazz with time running out. It's not even close. They are not in the same league as far as that "something" that the "beyond great" ones have. Kobe is the closest I've seen to having what Jordan had. MJ played in a different sport - 80's and 90's era basketball that was filled with thugs. Today's NBA is filled with divas.
If Jordan was as skilled as you say how come he was washed up by the time he went to the Wizards? How come he couldn't make guys into superstars in the Wizards? Kareem was like 10 years older than Jordan and he was still dominating. It's a joke to say basketball in the 80's/90's was harder than today. Which other sport is where it gets easier as time goes on? Just technology, globalization and better training/knowledge means the sport becomes more competitive, duh. How many international players were playing back in Jordan's time? You mean to say now that everyone who is good in bball can play it is worse than when the player pool was limited to the US? There were only 200+ million in the US in the 80s vs 7.3B in the world today you think BBall back then was better?????? Gimme a break dude, lay off the Gatorade and use your brain
The divas of today would blow the "thugs" of the 80's and 90's out of the water. How many wing players in the 80's can stop Kevin Durant who is 7'1? You think Draymond Green or Kawhi can't defend 80's unathletic players? You are just making the mistake of looking at today's game and thinking they won't whup the 80's ass. Lebron plays the way he does because the rules today don't allow a lot of contact. If he went on a time machine and got transported to play basketball in the 80's then he would play like an 80's player. He would bulk the F up and lock down Jordan with his physicality and athleticism. Lebron has the body of Karl Malone and athleticism of Kobe, the rules today hamper him because if physical contact was allowed he can use his strength the way players in the 80s used theirs.
tons of players had no go to move and was 20 ppg scorers in the 90's. domnique wilkins was less skilled than lebron and still put up 30 ppg. michael adams had no "go to move" and was still a 20ppg scorer. not every team in the 90's was elite defensively. lebron would still dominate.
This is total BS how many rings does BIll Russell have? He even has rings as a coach and a player-coach which Jordan didn't do. Kareem was MVP till age 48, has more rebs and blocks than Jordan and is also the point leader. The Jordan crowd just keep moving the goal posts to ensure Jordan is Goat. When told BIll Russell has more rings they say Jordan's era is better, but when compared to Lebron they go back and say Jordan has had a better career. Which is it? You have to stick to one line of logic can't keep changing the standards to favor Jordan. Btw Jordan isn't even the best player in the 80's, that honor belongs to Hakeem who was just unlucky to get drafted by the Houston Rockets. If the Bulls got him instead of the Rockets how many rings would Hakeem win playing with Rodman and Pippen and Phil Jackson?
lol acting like jordan played against the bad boys pistons and ewing knicks every night. lebron would still be dominate in the 80's and 90's over 90% of the competition
The present rule violations that are prevalent in today's game occur at every level of basketball. You can't forget to dribble properly (hand on top of ball at all times) when you never did it.
Great post Ceasar. However, Jordan wasn't inefficient in the 95 playoffs. He was more efficient then he was during the 2nd 3-peat. He lost because he didn't have a PF and wasn't on the best team. Every year he won he arguably had the best supporting cast in basketball. And Kareem won a title pre Lakers.
Oh man lmfao. If you love fundamentals so much then watch Euroleague or women's basketball lmfao. Watching NBA players must be torture for you. All these damn street ball AAU millennials ruining the league for you huh?
Losing Grant was huge. But, i think a fully seasoned Jordan on that 95 team to build chemistry changes things in that Orlando series. Kukoc at the stretch 4. They certainly don't finish 5th place in the East if MJ is there all season long and that changes the EC playoff format. I find it hard to see MJ losing in the ECF to Orlando while he's fully seasoned. But, it's ancient history. Like i said. losing was probably necessary. Yes, his 2nd 3 peat was bad efficiency wise-mostly in the Finals iirc, it might be a direct result of having no help offensively. Pippen was atrocious offensively that 2nd 3 peat and Rodman has no value outside of OREB and setting picks, but is a bit underrated IQ/passing wise out of the high post/elbow. I know Kareem won pre Lakers, he won with another arguable top 10 player of all time. Oscar Robertson was 32 years old. It's almost unfair to give any all time great big an all time great perimeter teammate. It's usually a recipe for multiple championships. That's why Yao/T-Mac is so disheartening to look back on as Shaq/Penny must be for Orlando fans. Injury is the only thing that can stop that kind of duo. So i suppose that's another thing we can credit MJ and LeBron with. They didn't need dominant bigs to win like Magic, Kobe, Dr. J, Oscar, West, etc.
jodan has 5 mvps, 6 finals mvps, 6 rings, 1 dpoy, 10x all nba first team, 9x all d first team kareem has 6 mvps, 2 finals mvps, 6 rings, 0 dpoy, 10x all nba first team, 5x all d first team russell has 5 mvps, 0 finals mvps, 11 rings, 0 dpoy, 3x all nba first team, 1x all d first team, 8x all d second team these are the 3 greatest careers of all time. you were 100% to compare jordan to kareem and russell. i give jordan the edge over kareem since jordan was more decorated defensively and the big difference in finals mvps. jordan's 6 rings were accompanied each time by a finals mvp proving that he was the main reason they won. although kareem has one more mvp, out of his 6 rings only twice was he the finals mvp. the edge here is jordan. you can make a case the russell should be considered the best of all time instead of jordan. they're tied for mvps. there was no finals mvp award so we can't judge that category between russell and jordan. i'm not a believer as some would say he would have won the finals mvp 11x. he was only the regular season mvp for half of those and he played with like 8 hall of fame players who could have won some instead of him. they didn't have dpoy back then but one can assume he'd have a bunch of those, but he also didn't get all defense first team every season (made second team most of the time), but of course they didn't have all nba teams for his whole career so again its hard to say. you can't go wrong by calling russell or jordan the GOAT. kareem is right behind them. as for calling the rules by the book in the early nba, that's true, but today's talent level is so much higher than anything they could've imagined back then. the size, athleticism, shooting, and ball handling is at a whole other level. what could havlicek do against durant on either end of the floor? even if you called all the travels you wanted i'm taking durant.
