Lol... Tell me your top-10 all-time list. I wanna see where you put Dirk there and who you have ranked in the top-10.
I'm ruling out LA and any other team that won't have a chance to win a title or at least make the Finals immediately. I can't read LeBron's mind but he always says winning is important and he has yet to go to a team that didn't have a great chance to win, and the Lakers won't be that even if they do pull a miracle and dump Deng. If competing for titles suddenly doesn't matter anymore, then maybe.
Because he was elite offensively and defensively. And I'd gladly take the PF that isn't a complete defensive liability that can still score over the one that can't stop either one of us but can shoot three's.
If the NBA stopped right now: 1. Kareem 2. LeBron 3. Jordan 4. Wilt 5. Tim Duncan 6. Hakeem 7. Karl Malone 8. Dirk 9. KG 10. Shaq
Kobe ain't top 20, 36% FG% in the finals for his career, most missed shots all time yet nearly 8K points behind kareem. 0 playoff series wins without an elite C. I'm taking longevity into account too, Dirk and Malone were real contributors into their late 30s, and Karl Malone into his 40s. Shaq might be GOAT if he kept his Orlando weight, but he was washed up from 2007 onwards, the ref shenanigans may put an asterisk on 3 of his titles. Moses Malone was great, but he wasn't better than KG or Dirk.
This is something to think about. But realistically, Lebron isn't stupid to join the West. He knows what his chances are in the West, and I'm willing to bet he's going to retire a Cavalier/East player. If he seriously does leave, wherever he goes, his legacy might not get hindered... I mean look at Shaq... he floated everywhere. But everyone still knows him for his Laker days and kinda when he won with Wade in Miami... It's a tough one.. but I feel like Lebron at this point isn't going to go anywhere, except stay in Cleveland.
This is ridiculous. I look at this list and I can't even guess how you're judging players. Putting Dirk and Karl Malone over Shaq.... No Larry Bird, no Magic, no Bill Russell... Wow....
I think the word elite is used too freely here. Bear in mind, Nowitzki was a much better defensive rebounder rate, and double the steals rate, but also half the block rate of McHale. DIrk has the better career DRtg. But I'm not arguing Dirk was a great defender or better defender than McHale. Certainly not. Just McHale wasn't "elite" defensively, and Dirk wasn't the sieve defensively many thought he was - at least not much of his career. Of course Dirk is the better, more versatile offensive player. And he's played 468 more games (to date) than McHale did (50%) more. Longevity isn't everything, but that's a big difference. Dirk in the top 10 is insane. But Dirk not in the top 50 is probably more insane. While I wouldn't put him over Kobe by any means... I can at least understand the argument from a Kobe was overrated and Dirk was underrated point of view. But put Dirk above KG... I think that's a fair argument... they are VERY close, with Dirk winning offensively and KG winning defensively. But at the end of the day, Dirk as the #1 guy in Dallas did what KG as the #1 guy in KG couldn't do.
I would be shocked if Lebron went to LA...no way that’s happening What has their FO or coaching staff proven? Lebron and PG or Lebron and Cousins isn’t some amazing team.
I get that narrative.... I just think its dumb. Being 3-whatever, call it 10 if you want in the Finals is obviously worse than being 10-3. But its also obviously way better than anyone who hasn't at least won 3, all as the #1 guy. Here's the list of players with more than 3 rings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_players_with_most_championships His 8 Finals appearances already mean that only 6 players in NBA history have been in more Finals than him. [side note, as much as 1-8 in the Finals probably sucked for West, Elgin Baylor went 0-7 Then talk about performance. The Mavs loss is definitely noteworthy. I mean he sucked (relatively speaking)... was confused whether he should be alpha or not. But otherwise, Lebron hasn't exactly underperformed in the Finals. Even in losses, he's been dominant. I mean in the last 3 Finals appearances, where he's 1-2, his averages are: Last year - 33.6 ppg, 12 rpg, 10 apg (first player ever to average triple dub in the Finals) 15/16 - 29.7 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 8.9 apg 14/15 - 35.8 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 8.8 apg with efficiency, and defense. Gets to the Finals a ton, wins some (including a win over what was looking to be the best team of all time), won first championship for his city if 5+ decades, absolutely DOMINATES when in the Finals, etc. Basically, long-story short... only casual fans would be so naive to look at 3-whatever and think that sucks, guess you can't put him above Kobe or Magic, or whatever. If winning matters, and being a dominant player matters, your basically looking at: Russell, Kareem, MJ, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Bird and Lebron. Those are the guys with 3+ rings even remotely in Lebron's league. MJ = #1 Kareem and Lebron battle for #2 imo.
Not at all. McHale was elite on both sides of the ball. He made 6 All-D teams. Dirk is the more versatile offensive player. That doesn't translate to better. McHale shot 55% for his career and had some seasons where he shot over 60%. McHale played in an era where injuries like ACL's were career killers. Dirk should have better longevity playing with better medical technology. And you forget that McHale shortened his career because he tried to win a title playing on a broken foot, which still has him limping around today. KG as the #1 guy never had the type of supporting cast that Dirk had for numerous Dallas seasons, including the ones where he couldn't win. He had one season with comparable talent and got to the WCF's, and even then Cassell got hurt in the playoffs. And KG was arguably Boston's most important season when they won. The defense was built around him. Once he got hurt the Celtic's weren't the same.
I hear ya. And to be clear, I wasn't trying to downplay McHale. I just think he was really really really really really good... which is close to elite, but not quite there, when you consider the situation he was in, etc. Again, I hear ya... but?? It is what it is. The disparity is so large at this point it has to be considered... I'm not sure about that. Dirk played with another all star 4 times. Kidd, Josh Howard, and Steve Nash twice. KG in Minny 3 times. Cassell, Wally, Gugliotta (though that was KG's second year... somewhat comparable to the Nash ones). I'm not saying KG had great supporting casts... but neither did Dirk really. He took a team of solid but not great players to the Finals twice. And the refs screwed him out of one win (like a legitimate, refs really impacted this series one, ala Kings/Lakers, not cry baby stuff) and he won one against a "dream team". So he made it to the WCF's once. Like I said, Dirk did more.... with similar talent around them. Arguably... but I don't think strongly enough to be worth debating. Three really really good players, plus Rajon. And Pierce was the Finals MVP. I also don't particularly care for KG as a person and leader. I've got Dirk ahead of KG, and both ahead of McHale. But all three were great, obviously.
What teams do you narrow it down to? "Winning is important" doesn't necessarily mean nothing else is important. For the record, I haven't ruled out the Spurs either because of how much he admires Pop.
"Moses Malone was great, but he wasn't better than KG or Dirk"????? Obviously you have NO FREAKIN IDEA who Moses Malone is or you wouldn't be making such an IGNORANT comment. Big Mo was a THREE time MVP and literally put the Rockets on his back and took them to the NBA finals.
Any team that has the ability to add him and compete for a title immediately. I won't try to guess them all but ones like LA won't qualify.
My original post, including the post you're replying to, doesn't infer that he's a complete loser. I'm saying that his options are to ring-chase hardcore, or just accept defeat and drop on the all-time greats list several notches. I'm not saying I don't want him here, I'm just straight-up laying out what I think will happen based on the results of this season's playoffs. But if you want to argue about the greatness of Lebron... Guess who were his greatest competition so far? That's right, all Western Conf teams and players. Whom he never had to face on his way to his Finals appearances. While Larry Bird, MJ, Kareem, etc. were in the trenches fighting off multiple all-time top-50 talents in their divisions and conferences to get to their championship games, here's Lebron w/ some of the most boring games in the 1st/2nd rounds and Conf Finals ever. Putting aside his wins and losses in the Finals, when Lebron decided to join Miami Heat w/ DWade and Chris Bosh, I swore that day that I'll NEVER forgive him for making basketball as boring as it became. Call me old-fashioned, I just prefer seeing all-time greats battling. And Lebron was the pioneer of superteams. Great for the economy of the league, whatever. But boring as s*** for someone who grew up in the 90s.
Young Man, Kevin McHale was a DPOY candidate every year he was healthy. Charles Barkley himself said that Kevin McHale gave him "nightmares" on the defensive side of the ball, not even mentioning his slippery offensive abilities. Charles Barkley said that. No one stopped Charles Barkley. Clearly, CLEARLY elite on defense.
Lmao.. the Lakers, like Lebron wants to end his career like Kobe did playing next to a bunch of rookies and scrubs. By the time Lonzo/Ingram/Kuzma are in their primes Lebron will be retired. Paul George wouldn't turn that team around with him either, Lebron would have a bettter shot in Cle with Love/Thomas and whatever that Brooklyn pick could fetch. I see 3 options outside of Cleveland for Lebron Rockets Spurs Bucks ... And out of those choices... it's hard to not see Houston as the favorties IMO. I just can't imagine Lebron taking his brand to Milwaukee, which is struggling to make the playoffs. San Antonio is also an incredibly weird market for Lebron to go to, and Leonard might be having some career altering injury issues, Spurs would just seem like a weird fit but they could clear the cap easily.
