1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Is believing in the Devil different (stranger) than believing in God?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by dmc89, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. dmc89

    dmc89 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    255
    Seeing some posts in the Scalia thread and my own personal experiences, it seems believing in the Devil has become stranger than believing in God - at least in mainstream America. Several (younger) Christians I know say they believe in the Trinity, but "not the Devil", usually followed by a chuckle.

    I think all of it is the same to the skeptic. One great myth... both the Devil and God, Heaven and Hell, etc. Why is the Devil a stranger belief and not God? And if it's not, why don't many younger Christians or the mainstream media talk about the Devil anymore? Perhaps it's a harder message to convey to an increasingly secular population?

    [No Usual Suspects quotes please. :)]
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Note: The concept of Satan is not the same across the Abrahamic faiths. Islam has several sects, but most agree that God and the Devil are very different than the Christian version most know. Islam's god is not personal or anthropomorphic. The Devil in Islam is not a fallen angel or an evil god waging war against a good good; instead, it is simply a jinn (genie) named Iblis. He refused an order to bow down to Adam thinking himself superior; for his disobedience, eternity in Hell. He pleaded with God: he would start his sentence in Hell after the Breaking of space-time. Until then, he and like-minded beings would do their best to lead us astray from tawhid ('Unity' and love).

    Ironically, Iblis and any disobedient creation can go to Heaven. They need only release their stubborn pride and 'submit'. Submitting means acknowledging the Highest Power, and to be grateful to it for life. To be a Muslim is to submit.

    Jinns and human beings along with angels are three intelligent beings (there are also other intelligent beings in other worlds and dimensions, but we haven't received knowledge of them). Jinns and humans were given free will versus angels which lack free will. Jinns occupy a parallel world next to ours where sometimes the boundary can be crossed. Jinns and human beings that followed Iblis's precedent form the Shaitan or Shaiateen, loosely Satan (but clearly not the one from pop culture).

    TL;DR Islam's version of Satan is a collection of arrogant beings whose only power is manipulating people to turn away from unity and love, and ultimately reject the notion of the One and any gratefulness for life that It deserves.
     
  2. otis thorpe

    otis thorpe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    13
    Its kind of preverse to claim there is a place below our feet with a red guy with horns and a pitchfork. i think it isnt less religion but more of an association with paganism
     
  3. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    56,812
    Likes Received:
    39,121
    I'm agnostic, myself, but if I did believe in a higher power who was all powerful and cared deeply about the human race, I wouldn't be able to accept that that higher power would allow something like the Devil and Hell. It just doesn't add up, at least for me.
     
  4. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    Damn you OP! You started this!

    Now troubles are many, they're as deep as a well
    I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell
    Swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell
    But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell
    Yes, only my dying will tell, yeah, only my dying will tell


    <iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-rjMB0JotHM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  5. meh

    meh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,377
    Likes Received:
    2,247
    I don't believe in either, but science has evolved to the point where we know what's below us. Where as technically speaking God may live on another star but is still in Heaven.Yes, I know everything is not suppose to be interpreted literally and everything, but it's still takes away the edge a bit. If I didn't know what was beneath my feet, I'd be much more likely to wonder if there's another world below.
     
  6. otis thorpe

    otis thorpe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    13
    If there's a hell below we're all gonna go

    ill find a quote:)
     
  7. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    I can't wait for my condo by the lake of fire.
     
  8. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,590
    Likes Received:
    83,938
  9. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,239
    Likes Received:
    48,095
    Yes, believing in a creator -- perhaps the entity that ignited the big bang is much more 'believable' than a creature who is a fallen angel and the enemy of god. Particularly if you believe in the standard image of the devil or if you think the devil is a real person subverting good in the world.
     
  10. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Messages:
    13,408
    Likes Received:
    7,511
    no more perverse than claiming there is a bearded white guy hanging out up in the clouds behind some pearly gates.

    like christmas?

    the center of the earth is a 5000 degree ocean of boiling metals and noxious gasses. sounds pretty hellish to me!
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,887
    Likes Received:
    36,461
    It does seem like another level down IMO.
     
  12. amaru

    amaru Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    16,609
    Likes Received:
    9,729
    Not in my opinion.....

    I'm an atheist, but when I read the "Old Testament" I saw Lucifer as a somewhat sympathetic character who rebelled against a racist, sexist, genocidal, infanticidal, megalomaniacal god.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    68,116
    Likes Received:
    45,856
    Because if you believe in an almighty God, logically, there should be no space for a devil. Almighty would rule out the devil having power - no?
     
  14. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2002
    Messages:
    13,971
    Likes Received:
    1,701
    Where would devil be if GOD doesn't want him to exist? Isn't GOD all powerful? While we are at it, GOD knows everything right? He exist at all time and space right? He knew exactly what is going to happen as soon as an action is taken. :eek:
     
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,564
    Likes Received:
    56,281
    pfft. That's like saying "If a God really existed, there would be no more hunger."

    No. That logic is not valid. The Devil is supposed to be a creation of God. A temptation. The serpent. He's a test. This is the Bible, whether you want to hear it or not.

    So, yes, the Devil is an adversary of God...but no more than Sin is. God lets him exist. According to your "logic," let me rephrase your statement...."if you believe in an almighty God, there would be no space for Sin. Almighty would rule out Sin having power - no?" see?

    All texts of Satan in the Bible lead back to the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. Actually, Satan is not really a person or thing throughout much of the Old Testament. It's just a word for adversary. Much like Sin.

    And Hell, hell that word predates all the Bible.
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    I will only vote for Christians who don't actually literally believe anything about their religion.
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,992
    Likes Received:
    15,455
    The "Devil" is more specific than "God", hence less believable.
     
  18. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,564
    Likes Received:
    56,281
    So you will only vote for phony Christians.

    I think you actually mean the complete opposite.
     
  19. SexyButIgnorant

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    27
    All the posts are kinda going somewhere else in relation to the question.

    I think the reason that a lot of the newer generation of Christians (younger ones) shrug off the idea of the Devil is because a large number of attractive churches only preach on the sunny side of Christianity (prosperity, joy, love another, etc.) No one wants to hear that a Devil exists that tempts everyone. No one wants to hear that we are all sinners in comparison to God. It seems that churches, while not outright denying, are just ignoring certain doctrine to the point of irrelevance.

    After all, churches are seeing a decline in attendance, and they'll adjust their sermons and views accordingly so as to gain attendance.

    Now what everyone else is arguing (the reason behind a necessity of a Devil and Hell if God is all-powerful) is a really deep question that can't be answered in one post, and there are a surprising amount of interesting answers throughout the theological spectrum.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,564
    Likes Received:
    56,281
    The Devil is just symbolism for Temptation and Sin, which is actually, much more believable than God.

    And the word to use in your sentence for God is not "belief;" it is "faith." Minor, yet, very significant difference.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now