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History will not forget the fiscal irresponsibility done yesterday

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sweet Lou 4 2, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I blame the Democrats for their out of control spending, I blame the Republicans for their out of control spending. You pretending that Democrats aren't considerably more irresponsible fiscally than Republicans is just you ignoring the facts due to tribalism and honestly isn't worth any more consideration than that.

    If I thought you were capable of better, I'd continue this, but I've known for quite some time now that you aren't.
     
  2. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    This is almost a $300 billiion mistake. I guess with all that scribbling in the margins something got lost in translation...

    Senate Republicans may have made a $289 billion mistake in their tax bill.

    Jordan Weissmann

    It appears that Senate Republicans managed to make a $289 billion or so mistake while furiously hand-scribbling edits onto the tax bill they passed in the wee hours of Saturday morning. The problem involves the corporate alternative minimum tax, which the GOP initially planned to repeal, but tossed back into their stew at the last second in order to raise some desperately needed revenue. The AMT is basically a parallel tax code meant to prevent companies from zeroing out their IRS bills. It doesn’t allow businesses to take as many tax breaks but, in theory, is also supposed to have a lower rate.

    Except not under the Senate bill. When Mitch McConnell & co. revived the AMT, they absentmindedly left it at its current rate of 20 percent, the same as the new, lower rate of the corporate income tax that the bill included. As a result, many companies won’t be able to use tax breaks that were supposed to be preserved in the legislation, including the extremely popular credit for research and development costs. Corporate accountants started freaking out about this over the weekend, but the situation reached high farce when a group of lawyers from Davis Polk pointed out that, by leaving the AMT intact, Republicans had essentially undermined their bill’s most important changes to the international tax code.

    Without getting too stuck in the weeds, the GOP’s bill was supposed to take the U.S. from a “worldwide” system of taxation, where the IRS tries to take a cut of profits American companies earn anywhere on the globe, to a modified “territorial” system, where companies could bring back their profits either tax-free or at a much lower rate. With the AMT still kicking around at 20 percent, though, “the United States would continue to operate under a worldwide system of taxation,” the lawyers wrote.

    Keeping the AMT was supposed to raise $40 billion, but that already appears to be a gross underestimate. (The figure came from Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation, whose analysts I can only assume were running on Red Bull and fumes while trying to provide the GOP with last-minute scores.) NYU Law professor and tax expert Lily Batchelder concludes that the AMT will actually cost companies at least $329 billion—good for limiting the blow to the deficit, bad for the corporations who are supposed to be stumping for this legislative Frankenstein—just based on the value of the R&D credits and international exemptions that have been rendered useless.

    Appears corporate AMT provision probably raises >$300B, not $40B JCT estimated under duress Fri night. This means Rs have to take Senate bill to conference and can’t just have House pass it, unless they want to *really* piss off bus community. 1/5

    — Lily Batchelder (@lilybatch) December 6, 2017
    I’m getting >$300B from fact that provision appears to repeal R&D credit, which costs ~$113B, and participation exemption, which costs $216B. See JCT estimates at https://t.co/odhMFYTc68 and https://t.co/dcffBY0NKb. 2/5

    — Lily Batchelder (@lilybatch) December 6, 2017
    And corporate AMT provision does a lot more than this, so even $300B is probably low-balling. 3/5

    — Lily Batchelder (@lilybatch) December 6, 2017
    When I talked to Batchelder briefly on the phone Tuesday night, she pointed out that while the GOP’s AMT debacle would end up raising more money than expected, there are almost certainly other, undiscovered mistakes in the bill that would lose revenue. “I think this evidences what can go wrong when you try to pass massive tax reform this quickly,” she said.

    On the bright side, this mammoth screw-up will make it harder for the House to simply pass the Senate’s bill if the GOP’s conference committee hits a wall. Republicans have to enact something that fixes this, lest they tick off the very donors this legislation was meant to appease.
     
    Hakeemtheking and mdrowe00 like this.
  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Gee, and it just seemed like yesterday when Trump and his supporters thought saving the coal industry was important...I guess coal miners just are not wealthy enough.

    CEO says late changes to Senate tax-cut bill ‘wipes out' what Trump has done for coal
    http://thehill.com/news-by-subject/...ter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true
     
  4. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    What progress? Did I miss the Progress?

    Rocket River
     
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    You aren't even capable of understanding that the highest spending growth presidents over the last 50 years have been Republicans. You claim that Democrats are more fiscally irresponsible, but it simply isn't the truth.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...facebook-post-says-barack-obama-has-lowest-s/
     
    B-Bob likes this.
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Again, I would accuse you of being intellectually dishonest with this, but I know that isn't the case, you simply aren't intelligent enough to know that this is deceptive. You aren't tying budgets to those who pass them, merely who happens to be in office at the time....I know, they should veto all of the budgets and shut down the government instead of work with the other party....that's just not reality.
     
  8. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    It's almost like big mistakes happen when you do something complicated in a big rush without inviting other people to participate.

    Weird.
     
    NewRoxFan likes this.
  9. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    Wow, this could be your most ignorant post ever, which is saying something because you've posted some egregiously ignorant crap.

    The graph showed actual spending during different President's terms. Even if you moved the measurement so that the first year of each President's term was attributed to the last President, the spending growth numbers wouldn't even be close.

    And now, looking back at the graph, it actually did adjust the numbers to account for the actual dynamic you posited. Hilarious that you didn't even look closely enough at the graph to understand it, then accuse me of not being intelligent.

    Keep flailing, rookie, I'm loving this!
     
    Sweet Lou 4 2 and Phillyrocket like this.
  10. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Oh....you just showed that you don't understand what I said....and that's just sad. At least you did your best I guess.
     
  11. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    ROFL, nice try, rookie. I demonstrated that I know exactly what you said and how it was completely wrong. If you have contradictory information, feel free to post it, if not, STFU.
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    Because the only other way what you said can be interpreted is that Congress is to blame for the deficits when Democrats are in charge while presidents are to blame when they happen to be Democrats.

    You can't have it both ways. Either explain yourself clearly or simply admit that your opinion was wrong.
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I'm sure you think so kiddo. If you had proven to be a more intelligent poster, I might waste more time on you, but instead you've proven your shortcomings that suggest you don't have the capacity for intelligent conversation.....so you can think whatever you want to think and I'll just laugh at you for it.
     
  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    What I said is that those who pass the budgets (or who fail to pass budgets and trigger automatic increases) are to blame for what they pass. I don't blame the president for not locking out the government every time they disagree with what congress does. Obama didn't shut down the government when Republicans took over and forced a more responsible budget on him, Bush didn't shut down the government when Democrats took over and started spending money like a drunk 16 year old girl at a mall with her father's credit card.

    I even pointed this all out to you already, but your shortcomings prevented you from understanding then and will likely prevent you from understanding it now as I say it again.
     
  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It's a waste of time to try to educate that mental midget. He's not smart for one, and he is totally brainwashed for another.
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Nah, it's good when you try to keep something secret and push through something that will change 10's of millions of lives in a few days. That's called being responsible. So what if there's a ton of mistakes, the important thing is you have a victory that you can use to get more votes hopefully.
     

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