'11 is the only year I was 100% confident; that team was a monster... until Schaub got hurt (whatup, fellow Schaub nuthugger?! Those were good times... Remember that time I started a 4,927-page thread titled, Schaub is ELITE? Haha...... (walks to a dark corner, sits and begins to weep....)) I thought the '12 team was very good - but the seams started to show down the stretch. '10 was a dumpster fire. '09 is the great lost year; a highly-competent team undone by bad coaching/poor execution. My official (C) ranking of Texans' seasons, top 5: 1. '11 2. '18 3. week 1, 2002 4. '12 5. '09 I think BOB's had two really strong seasons: '14 and this year. He outsmarted himself (Hoyer/Mallett) in '15; I have no opinion - good or bad - on '16 because Osweiler. And I grant him a full pass on '17 because, holy **** the injuries.
I'm Team Sunshine-Pumper DonnyMost. We've won 9 in a row with Bob's bumbling timeouts, challenges and conservative approach. If the trend continues and we make a deep playoff run/ somehow win the SB, it's going to be something else. I imagine us winning the Superbowl after calling 3 run plays in a row to drain the clock and punting it away while only holding a 2-point lead with 2:05 left and the other team has all their time outs. They march down the field easily to get to their 10 yard line for an easy chip shot. After letting the clock run down, spectacularly the kicker misses the field goal! But nooo Bob had called a timeout a second before to ice the kicker. And on the re-kick they bewilderingly miss again and we somehow win. It's going to be ****ing great.
The '09 team would have been scary as they found this running back (Foster) and he was fresh and just getting started. Darn you, Indy for not playing to win against the Jets!!
This makes no sense to me. If anything, BOB's adjustments to realistically address his team's obvious shortcomings should *inspire* confidence. He's not only making adjustments on the fly - he's making the *right* adjustments. Through their first five games, Watson averaged 34 attempts/game. He totaled 18 sacks (58/year pace) and was getting pulverized. The fifth and sixth games - Dallas & Buffalo - he was sacked 8 times and punctured a lung. Since? 25 attempts/game; sack pace (~42/year) and big hits have dramatically fallen. More importantly, Watson has gotten healthy and is getting better each week. You may not *like* this brand of football, I get it - but that is a pristine example of *exactly* what you want your head coach to do: re-evaluate, reassess; reload.
I'll take this bunch but only because of Watson. He's miles ahead of even good Schaub IMO. I just think if you have a QB like him, you always have a chance. Already the best QB this city has seen in a quarter of a century and he's just getting started. That's what I mean about things never being better. And the not scoring enough in the 2nd half comment was actually directed at the other guy I've been replying to in this thread. He really seems to be concerned about offensive stats only.
But that’s exactly the point. The 2010-2013 Texans also had a helluva lot of defeciencies... but they were flashier, sexier, and thus perceived to have more of a chance. In the end, this current team may very well get further than they did, despite not inspiring confidence.
I'll go on record: This team, and the way it is playing right now, the job the coaching staff has done, it's health, has the best chance at winning a Super Bowl as this franchise has ever had. ...And now I'll be knocking on wood until Sunday.
To each their own. The main difference for me is that I saw incremental progress in the Texans during the Kubiak years. That made rooting for those teams a lot easier. Even with the setback that was 2010, as frustrating and disappointing as it was, the silver lining was it felt like that was a team that underachieved. As a result, 2011-12 didn't feel like a fluke, it felt like it was inevitable. BOB's Texans? I see no progress or grand plan coming together. I see a below average coach doing below average things, five years into his tenure. I also see Deshaun Watson doing Deshaun Watson things and the defense continuing to do defense things, which are obviously entertaining, but I guess I'm interested in being more than entertained. I want to be invested. I'm not investing in this team. Not yet, at least. BOB should've been fired a while ago, but if the team really does turn the corner and start looking like a legitimate contender, I will invest and put down my pitchfork. He may have been given a longer leash than he deserves, but I can't hold that against him if he ever does prove himself worthy of the job. Let's just say given what I have seen I am not anticipating that corner getting turned.
Well, when he gets 6+ years... surviving a 2010 that he probably never should... of course there was progress, but I wouldn't necessarily say it was incremental. Revisionist memory that conveniently forgets how many blunders that regime made prior to finally breaking through in 2011. It was Kubiak's insistence of going with inexperienced DC's, and being forced to take on Wade, that played a role in the developmental delay that was the 2010's Texans... and as a result, when they finally played up to their potential (with all the years of draft picks after Mario Williams finally coming together)... it was already an older team that was soon to be facing a salary cap crunch, which led to the dismantling of the O-line, and the house of cards eventually collapsed just 2 years after their "breakthrough". That team quit on Kubiak... and while BOB certainly rubs the fans the wrong way, his players have always played hard each and every year for him. So you weren't excited at all about Watson last year.... bullshit. By himself, he should incite more than enough excitement.... this franchise has never had a true franchise QB, and they now have one at 23 years of age.... and not only that, he has shown a penchant to get even better when the stage is bigger. Its funny that many are stating the opposite... they aren't entertained by the way this team plays.... but they are becoming invested after the end results bear wins, and just knowing that Watson has barely scratched the surface of his potential (yet already looks like a savvy veteran out there) is more than enough to invest at the very start of all of this. When should he have been fired? After year one? After year 2? Then they got Brock Oswelier, who was a total debacle... yet they somehow make the playoffs and win a game, so then? Then they get Watson and he looks amazing... were you really ready to fire him after that? Strange logic as you were willing to give Kubiak 6 years before finding real success, even giving him a pass for the really awful 2010. Its fine to take your stand and stick with it... but at least pay attention to the context. This team was not going to fire BOB after Watson's electric debut. They've had to adjust the game plan significantly to protect their prized player... and I'm all for it. The fact that they're winning these games is all the better, but going forward it should literally be all about Watson's development no matter what.
There was obvious progress from 06-07-08-09 IMO. I never said Kubiak didn't make his own set of mistakes. Nor do I deny that he received more slack than he should have gotten. But my point remains that I saw progress in that regime year to year that I just don't see here. Year 5 Kubiak was well ahead of year 5 BOB IMO. I literally just said Watson is exciting. LOL. Not sold on him as a franchise QB necessarily. It's still early, but the needle is pointing the right way. Regardless, Watson does not absolve BOB of his sins for me, and that is the actual point at hand. Good for you. This is a funny question considering that I am the OP and the title of the thread is "Fire Bill O'Brien". Click on page 1 post 1 and you'll have your answer. I wanted Kubiak fired after 2010. Admittedly not nearly as bad as I have wanted BOB gone these almost 3 years now. IIRC, RE: Kubiak, I calmed down a bit and walked back off that in the offseason, but 2010 left a terrible taste in my mouth after having gone to bat for him for so long on this BBS. Kubiak got more slack than he deserved, but once he proved himself worthy of the job, I signed up whole-hog and didn't hold his past failures against him. I'll afford BOB the same courtesy. Am I not allowed to say I support his ousting even if I know he probably isn't going to be fired? If we want it all to be about Watson's development, then holy hell I want BOB gone immediately.
They did start from 2-14... similar to this regime. If anything, this regime decided to go 9-7 from 2-14. Maybe if they had gone 6-10 before going 8-8, 8-8, you would have felt better? It was also likely a product of how terrible the state of the franchise was going into 2006 (worse than an expansion team)... so yes, there was a lot more incremental improvement to be made. Still a silly stance... I could say year one and two BOB was better than year one and two Kubiak...still doesn't mean much. This is literally year 5 of BOB.... well ahead? Is that still true if this team goes even further than any Kubiak team? But you were all in on Matt Schaub? Sorry, I lost you there. Hence my point that you've dug in your heels and it will be hard for you, and others, to enjoy this team's success due to a black/white; polarizing take. To me, had Watson not had an electric debut, I'd be right there as well. Had the team not turned it around after 0-3, he'd have already been gone. Things change, as you know. Why? The guy looks like a veteran out there... and you have a coach that cares immensely about his well being, changing their entire gameplan in consecutive years to fit his strengths and protect his health. In the end, Watson does have the pull to get the coach he feels most comfortable with... and he's had nothing but glowing things to say about their working relationship.
If by "all in" you mean "good enough", then sure. Err, whut? I think it's an obvious problem when your 5th year HC is still making rookie mistakes. Like I've already said many times, I approach each game with open eyes and ears ready to be convinced that this team is legit. There has been some progress lately. I've given credit where that credit is due. Still a sizeable hole to dig out of, though. Agree to disagree then. His development seems about average (this doesn't bother me so much as this basically is his quasi-rookie year anyway), good enough but not superlative IMO. I'm also not seeing BOB protecting DW4 that well, either, which is very bothersome. The OL is quite the sivv (ranked something like 30th in overall pass protection) and the run game, while it has improved slightly as the year has gone on, is by no means gangbusters. I also doubt DW4 could get a coach fired at this point, nor I do I put much stock into what he has to say about BOB. You're not going to find many QBs out there who won't have complimentary things to say about their coaches. I think we can all agree that Watson has a lot of raw talent, I'm just not sold that BOB is improving on that as much as he is simply riding it/getting bailed out by it. That's not what we brought Mr. QB Guru here to do.
But you're not sold on Watson being a franchise QB... when in just his 18th pro game, he's making better decisions with the football than year 7 Matt Schaub. Year 5 BOB is 9-3. Year 5 Kubiak was 5-8 and regressing at this point.... you're the one that said he was "well ahead". You don't think they're well out of the hole at this point? If anything, had they won those two winnable games against the Titans and Giants, then where would this team be? Obviously, they needed adjustments to the game plan... and while it doesn't lead to a sexy brand of football, its far more effective than what they were doing. The run game has been a point of focus because they could not afford to keep dropping him back 40 times a game or risk getting him killed. Yes, its because the O-line doesn't have the ability to protect well enough without establishing the run fully. That is the protection they've tried to afford DW4. He does take some unnecessary hits, and some of that is on him as well.... he'll continue to learn that you don't need to be super-human every play. And if you don't think his development is off the charts, I'm not sure what else needs to be done to convince you. His numbers after these first starts are only eclipsed by HOF guys like Marino and Warner. The fact that he's won a ton is merely gravy... and you're also not paying attention to the rest of the league if you don't think young QB's can influence coaching decisions. Look at what just happened in Cleveland, or Tennessee before that, or Tampa before that.
Guess not. Also, I c whut ur doin there trying to take a small sample size of awful (imploding Matt Schaub) and comparing DW4 to it to make him look better. Sneaky beaky! You're once again taking a small sample size (the beginning of the worst year of Kubiak's tenure to that point) and trying to strawman with it. BOB is in year 5 and still making rookie HC blunders. It's as simple as that. No. BOB has many years worth of terrible HCing under his belt at this point. I'm not going to suddenly go "BOB JUST WINZ BABY!" and act as if they are winning because of him, and not despite him. But they didn't. We know better than to go into what ifs. I feel that luck (some astoundingly stupid decisions by opposing teams and a very soft schedule) has contributed more to this win streak than BOB has. Fair point. But it should be noted DW4 was getting absolutely murdered back there last year too... This conversation doesn't seem to be productive anymore for either of us. So we should probably abandon ship here. I'm happy you think this team is headed in the right direction. That's probably a lot of fun. Not interested in disabusing you of that idea.
Not really... you don't really need to compare Watson to Schaub... because there is no comparison. Watson in his 2nd year is already putting up numbers that have been matched by HOFers. Sure, he may not stay on that trajectory... or he gets better like many do with more experience. What would you want to bet on? You literally just posted that Kubiak in year 5 was way ahead of BOB in year 5. Kubiak in year 5 was 5-7 and as you said, was deserving of getting fired. BOB in year 5 is 9-3. There's nothing "straw man" about refuting the point that you brought up. Again, not bothering to compare Kubiak to him (because Kubiak wasn't an elite coach)... but only because you revere those years so much, care to compile their career HC records at the same corresponding points in time? And as you've already gone through, you saw what happened when Kubiak finally broke through when given ample opportunity, and it "changed your stance" on him. By continuing to try and try (and try) to rationalize this winning streak in a negative way, you're apparently convinced yourself its all smoke/mirrors.... when in reality, 11-1 in 2012 ended up being exactly that, collapsing completely in 2013.
I can't imagine you being a fan of about 20 other teams... you might have actually burned something down by now.
LOL. The Browns in the 4th quarter last week: “This game doesn’t seem to be productive anymore for either of us. We should probably go ahead and abandon ship....”.
The Texans offense should be much better than this. Bill o Brien needs to be relieved of offensive coordinator duties. The Texans have to much fore power for this bullshit. Colts defense is not this good.
