[Falcon Heights] Woman goes live on Facebook after boyfriend is shot by police

This is the reason why he was pulled over:

COP: " we have to ..... you, your brake lights are out. so you have one activated, active brake light, could be the passers sign on... Do you have your license sir?"

The cops' demeanor (both of them from dashcam video) does not show and was not "due to his resemblance to an armed robbery suspect from a case he personally responded to".

Cop DID NOT order the driver to put his hands on the steering wheel when cop was told he was carrying. He was asking for papers/ID prior to that.

DRIVER: "Sir, I do have to tell you I have firearm on me.." (AND I AM PULLING IT OUT SO I CAN SHOOT YOU)
COP: "OK, don't reach for it then." 1:11
"Don't pull it out" 1:13
"Don't pull it out" 1:15
Successive shots fired 1:16

Cop did not give the person the time to comply with his countermanded order. First order: reach for your papers. Counter order: Don't pull it out.

The other cop, who was NONCHALANTLY watching the entire exchange from the passenger window, did not have the same reaction for the driver reaching out for something UNTIL THE FIRST shot was fired. He does not even seem to have his hand on the holster.

And the cop who killed the driver did not even know what he is reaching for.
COP: "...and I don't know where the gun was, he did not tell me where the ****ing gun was..." (SO WHAT WAS HE PULLING OUT WHEN YOU SHOT HIM?)

 

This is what I think. I don't think he went into the situation wanting to kill a black fellow, but I do think a tragedy occurred largely because of false identification on his part and then some preconceived notions he had that are honestly rather flimsy. There should be consequences for that mistake beyond "oops sorry, his nose looked like a guy I was looking for."

 

This is at best an intellectually dishonest statement and at worst a really really stupid statement. All other circumstances being the same if a random citizen threw someone in handcuffs and dragged them out of their home they would probably end up in jail for it, yet cops do it all the time. You know why? Because you can't compare the two situations. You might as well be saying that if an apple was an orange then it would be a different color. The statement simply has no value.

This should be fun, we'll take this one step at a time and see how much you get right.

That was the reason given to Castile, but there is audio of the officer before starting the traffic stop talking about why he plans on stopping the man and the reason given was that he fit the description of an armed robbery suspect in a case he responded to.....so you are off to a pretty terrible start when it comes to the facts.

Literally no one has made the claim that the officer said that.....so have fun beating up that straw man.

As soon as the officer was informed about the firearm he attempts to tell Castile to stop doing what he's doing because he doesn't know where the gun is and thinks he might be reaching for it. Castile continues to keep doing what he was doing for an additional 5 seconds...that's plenty of time to stop doing what you are doing.

I'm not sure what you think the relevance of this is, but you are probably wrong pretty much no matter what you think it is. There are numerous incidents where cops have been shot while another cop was on the scene not concerned about what was happening till it was too late.

That helps the cop's legal defense. He knew that Castile was armed and he didn't know where the gun was but Castile continued to move after he was repeatedly warned not to reach for "it". Cops don't have to wait till they get shot to respond to a threat.

 

1. presented link of my facts. care to share the link of yours? thanks.

2. was ordered to show his papers and was reaching for it. was shot trying to comply to multiple orders.

3. so you can be killed by cops based on what the cops THINK you are doing and WILL DO? thanks for the info.
context: driver declared he has a gun (and pulling it out to kill him). for good measure, he brought his kid and wife for the robbery you thought he committed. is that too much to digest for the cop to review what he suspect and THINK?

and less than 5 seconds seems eternity when read. The video show he did not give the driver a chance to comply.

4. if you don't see the relevance, you pretty much missed everything. numerous incidents does not justify a mistake.

5. same circumstances, they are WATCHING THE SAME MAN. only one cop reacted the way the killer cop did.

The cop's demeanor in the video is telling. He pretty much admitted his culpability.

 

1. Feel free to attempt to dispute anything I said and I'll respond to it.

2. He was asked for those things before he informed the officer that he was armed, that changes things as he should have known. I don't have a CHL and have no interest in getting one but I'd hope they instruct people in how to handle a traffic stop while armed before giving people permits to carry. The very first rule is to not start reaching around for things as an officer yells at you to not reach for things.

3. Yes, you can be killed by cops when you are a perceived threat that causes them to believe their life is in danger. That's why you want to make sure you are not a perceived threat and if you are one, you want to make sure that you never cause them to fear for their life. If you are armed and stopped by police, keep your hands where they can see them and don't make any sudden movements or reach for ANYTHING until you are disarmed. Again, I don't know if they teach that or not, but they REALLY should because while that would be common sense to someone like me, apparently it's not to everyone.

4. Again, talking about what the other officer on the opposite side of the car did is irrelevant to this case given that he wasn't in the same position to see the same thing the officer that pulled the trigger did.

5. Same as above. You might think you are making a coherent argument here, but you simply aren't.

Like I said to another person earlier, if you don't understand the law and how it is applied, that is fine. The only thing I can do is spell it out to you and you'll either get it or you'll remain confused. Doesn't really matter one way or the other.

 

As long as cops continue to be paid, in general, poorly then you get what you pay for.

 

The driver was speaking calmly and respectfully, and had a mother and child in the car next to him. His profession also demands his first duty is to protect the public safety.

So whatever reason you think he has to be on alert, there was also ample reason for him to use some discretion in acting with deadly force. His failure to do so resulted in an innocent man's death.

 

It wasn't his words that caused him to be perceived as a threat, it was his actions. When you are armed and not obeying police instructions while continuing to reach for something out of the officer's view, they are probably going to shoot you and if they do it's 100% legally justifiable. It's a tragedy that an innocent man died, but let's not pretend this was something other than what it was, which was a tragic misunderstanding.

 

Actually you did, after first saying that he pulled out a gun. It's right there for everyone to see, so I don't know why you're denying it, lol.

 

It wasn't his actions either. We all know why he was perceived as such a threat.

I know you like to repeat yourself, but if you're going to do so please at least stick to the facts of the matter. He did not disobey police instructions. The instructions in this case were vague and reasonably could be understood as "Don't pull out the gun" (which he was, by all accounts, obeying) as opposed to "Don't move, put your hands where I can see them."

There was a tragic misunderstanding. But saying that's all it was implies that the officer did nothing wrong. You evidently have unbelievably low standards for police officers, but I don't accept that and I don't think our society should accept that. Interacting with a police officer in a completely non-aggressive manner should never be putting your life at risk.

 

That cop is a thug. He does not belong in society. He should be behind bars. He is shooting into a car with baby and women.

 

Yes, we do. Because he met the description of an armed robbery suspect, was armed, and was ignoring police commands.

I often have to repeat myself because those I'm speaking to struggle to hold on to narratives despite evidence to the contrary forcing me to state facts over and over again in the hopes that they'll cut the BS. He did ignore police commands, he continued reaching for whatever he was reaching for when the officer told him to stop. Perhaps he was just high and that's why he didn't realize that doing so put his life in jeopardy, no one can say for sure. The only thing we can do is try to learn from his mistakes.

From a legal standpoint the officer did nothing wrong. From a police procedure standpoint, he did nothing wrong although he could have used different language. I think the real problem is that so few people know what the law is in situations like this when police officers are involved so you get a bunch of ignorant nonsense calling things murder that simply aren't.

I would suggest that people who aren't willing or able to appropriately handle being pulled over while carrying handgun should not carry handguns. Castile was either incapable or unwilling to handle things the right way and it cost him his life. When you decide to carry a weapon, you are taking on a ton of responsibilities and it's not for everyone.

 

That has to be some kind of record. 2 posts later, someone else owns you and proves me right. You can post this all you want, I won't even report you. Nobody believes a thing you say, heck I don't even have to come to my own defense.

Nice to see you getting so triggered though LOL

 

If the child had been hit. . . . . they would blame everyone but the cop shooting into a car

Rocket River

 

1. By golly, I was just asking for the link of the audio. Are you lying in that aspect? Your defense of the cop's actuation is pretty much anchored on that premise "due to his resemblance to an armed robbery suspect from a case he personally responded to". If I know where to find it, I will not ask you for it. Let's not proceed talking about the law if you are not aware of the spirit of the law.

 

Do your own footwork kiddo. I'm just trying to educate you on what happened and why, if you want to remain ignorant that's on you.

 

or you are just making it up

Rocket River

 

LOL, that's one theory. I invite you to educate yourself in order to find out for sure. I promise it won't take too much time away from your fascinating posts about how Bill Cosby isn't a rapist because of the Tuskegee experiments and how North Korea torturing a person to death is the same as Micheal Brown attacking a cop and being shot as a result. Good luck!

Of course I've done this before, you guys never actually look things up in order to have an informed and accurate opinion and I eventually do it for you after you continue to spew misinformation and ignorance. Here's to hoping this time is different!

 

He met the description of a black armed robbery suspect. And how detailed that description was (what percentage of black males did the description fit?), I don't know.

I understand you are reluctant to acknowledge race in this case, but pretending it's not a factor in all of this makes you sound hopelessly naive. I hope your reluctance is not because you genuinely don't see it, but rather because you're trying to counter-balance all the people who think this was pure racism on the cop's part and nothing else. Trying to fight back against all those blood-thirsty, cop-hating lefties, eh? I'll just say that it's OK to have a nuanced take that acknowledges the race factor among all the other things.

Let's be clear. The command was "Don't pull it out". "It", in this case, was referring to the firearm. So, the command was "Don't pull the firearm out." The driver said, clearly, "I'm not pulling [the firearm] out". The passenger next to him confirmed this. The cop repeats the same command. And then kills him.

I think I understand how you are reading the situation. By "He did ignore police commands", what you really mean is that he ignored the commands the police officer intended ("put your hands up where I can see them and don't move") but didn't actually say. Well, swell. But the fact is, the driver followed the commands as given, and it wasn't his responsibility to read the mind of the officer and know what he actually meant or how scary/threatening he must appear to him. It was the officer's responsibility to clearly put forward the command if he felt there was a threat. That was his failure, not Castile's.

I never used the word murder, and I'm not particularly focused on the legality either. What happened should not have happened if the officer did his job the right way, and Castile did nothing to warrant being shot dead. You said the officer "did nothing wrong although he could have used different language." Well, yeah, that's pretty huge ****-up you're just glossing over there.

Whatever misstep you feel Castile may have made as a gun owner pales in comparison to the police officer's failure to perform his duties in the right manner.

 

I think you not knowing yet going on as if you do is a pretty bit problem for this conversation. Things would go better if you educated yourself as to the facts of the case before attempting to share your opinion about it. If you did your homework, you'd know that it was more than just a description given to them, they actually had footage of the robbery which the officer involved absolutely saw multiple times.

I don't buy the narrative that it was just a racist Hispanic cop out to kill black people. I don't buy that the reason he was on his guard was due to Castile's race.

I think he'd have been on his guard with any armed person that he pulled over because he thought he looked like an armed robbery suspect. I truly do not believe that race was a factor other than that if Castile was of a different race the officer likely wouldn't think he looked like the armed robbery suspects.

For your own sake I hope that either you'll decide not to carry a firearm in public or that you'll realize that when a cop is yelling at you "Don't pull it out", he's telling you that he thinks you are doing that. If he's yelling that and you keep doing what you're doing, he's going to shoot you. Carrying a firearm in public isn't for everyone, I certainly don't want to deal with that nonsense, and I think Castile would be alive today if he knew what to do in a situation like that and he was sober enough to do so. I've personally been involved in a police stop where someone I was with had a CHL and the cop got jumpy as hell once he knew someone was armed and only calmed down once that person was disarmed. That's to be expected and that's what you are signing on for if you get a CHL and choose to carry in public.

You say that but the police officer didn't really mess up and if you are suggesting he did, you are doing so based solely on the outcome. Could he have used different language? Sure, but given that he thought the guy was reaching for his gun right away it sort of takes away his opportunity to do so.

I personally would want ANYONE that was thinking about getting a CHL to watch that video and I still think they should teach people how to deal with situations like this as part of your CHL training (in fairness I don't know if it's a part of the training or not, I never plan on getting a CHL so it's not something I've looked into)