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Energy Independence + Job Creation

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    A new course that is both pro-jobs and pro-environment. It's high time that the EPA stops targeting our energy industries.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...new-order-rolling-back-obama-energy-regs.html

    Trump to sign new order rolling back Obama energy regs

    Moving forward with a campaign pledge to unravel former President Obama's sweeping plan to curb global warming, President Trump on Tuesday is set to sign an executive order that will suspend, rescind or flag for review more than a half-dozen measures in an effort to boost domestic energy production in the form of fossil fuels.

    EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt told “Fox & Friends” that the president will “set a new course” that is both “pro-jobs” and “pro-environment.”

    “It’s going to create jobs in the oil and gas sector,” he said. “For too long, over the last several years, you’ve had certain industries, certain sectors of our economy that were within the crosshairs of the EPA.”

    He added, “That is not going to happen anymore.”

    As part of the new roll-back, Trump will initiate a review of the Clean Power Plan, which restricts greenhouse gas emissions at coal-fired power plants.

    The regulation, which was the former president's signature effort to curb carbon emissions, has been the subject of long-running legal challenges by Republican-led states and those who profit from burning oil, coal and gas.

    Trump, who has called global warming a "hoax" invented by the Chinese, has repeatedly criticized the power-plant rule and others as an attack on American workers and the struggling U.S. coal industry. The contents of the order were outlined to reporters in a sometimes tense briefing with a senior White House official, whom aides insisted speak without attribution, despite Trump's criticism of the use of unnamed sources.

    The official at one point appeared to break with mainstream climate science, denying familiarity with widely publicized concerns about the potential adverse economic impacts of climate change, such as rising sea levels and more extreme weather.

    In addition to pulling back from the Clean Power Plan, the administration will also lift a 14-month-old moratorium on new coal leases on federal lands.

    The Obama administration had imposed a three-year moratorium on new federal coal leases in January 2016, arguing that the $1 billion-a-year program must be modernized to ensure a fair financial return to taxpayers and address climate change.

    Trump accused his predecessor of waging a "war on coal" and boasted in a speech to Congress that he has made "a historic effort to massively reduce job-crushing regulations," including some that threaten "the future and livelihoods of our great coal miners."

    The order will also chip away at other regulations, including scrapping language on the "social cost" of greenhouse gases. It will initiate a review of efforts to reduce the emission of methane in oil and natural gas production as well as a Bureau of Land Management hydraulic fracturing rule, to determine whether those reflect the president's policy priorities.

    It will also rescind Obama-era executive orders and memoranda, including one that addressed climate change and national security and one that sought to prepare the country for the impacts of climate change.

    The administration is still in discussion about whether it intends to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change. But the moves to be announced Tuesday will undoubtedly make it more difficult for the U.S. to achieve its goals.

    Trump's Environmental Protection Agency chief, Scott Pruitt, alarmed environmental groups and scientists earlier this month when he said he does not believe carbon dioxide is a primary contributor to global warming. The statement is at odds with mainstream scientific consensus and Pruitt's own agency.

    The overwhelming majority of peer-reviewed studies and climate scientists agree the planet is warming, mostly due to man-made sources, including carbon dioxide, methane, halocarbons and nitrogen oxide.

    The official who briefed reporters said the president does believe in man-made climate change.

    Former EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy accused the Trump administration of wanting "us to travel back to when smokestacks damaged our health and polluted our air, instead of taking every opportunity to support clean jobs of the future."

    "This is not just dangerous; it's embarrassing to us and our businesses on a global scale to be dismissing opportunities for new technologies, economic growth, and US leadership," she said in a statement.

    Michael Oppenheimer, a climate scientist at Princeton University, told The New York Times that Trump’s order signals that the U.S. will fall short of its pledge to cut emissions of about 26 percent by 2025. He said Trump’s order “sends a signal to other countries that they might not have to meet their commitments—which would mean that the world would fail to stay out of the climate danger zone.”
     
  2. dmoneybangbang

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    Didn't US Shale play a role in causing a global supply glut which tanked prices?

    Countries are using less coal because it's polluting and domestically coal plants aren't being built.
     
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  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    LOL... curious as to the "pro-environment" part. Also would like to learn more about that Chinese global warming hoax that Trump is talking about. This should all be good for a laugh...
     
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  4. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    I'll give you a perfect example from the past. W took all kinds of heat for not signing up for the Kyoto Protocol agreement. Guess which country was the first to meet the reduction targets? The USA. Innovation.
     
  5. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Always a fun ride watching bigtexx threads unravel. Time to sit back and watch bigT pump the dry well that is trump.

    Pump the trump, texxx. Pump the trump.
     
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  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Only jobs this will produce are jobs manufacturing gas masks.

    Coal jobs you say - There are now more than 40K more SOLAR energy jobs in the US than there are Coal jobs and Solar is increasing by 35K per year while Coal jobs have been declining for years. Clean energy aside, its STUPID from a business perspective to say we want to pump resources into allowing Coal plants to pollute our environment (when there is no evidence that its going to impact our economy AT ALL... as less than 1% of American jobs are in the Coal industry), while suppressing a booming industry in Clean Energy that could potentially impact 5 to 10% of our workforce in the US.

    I thought Trump was elected because he was "Business Savvy". When in fact its stupid business to pump resources into a dying industry and ignoring a booming industry.... which is also an industry that our economic rivals globally are getting much better at from a technology and industrial standpoint.

    I do feel sorry for the Coal miners in West Virginia that get so much airplay on the campaign trail but I'd rather a candidate visit West Virginia and speak truth to those folks and say that you want to translate their jobs to a clean energy plant in their State that will give them a better future than Coal. Its stupid from an economic and environmental standpoint by allowing our politicians to continue to politicize these folks in Coal country when really the answer is to transition their jobs to the modern world.
     
    #6 dobro1229, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
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  7. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Link, please
     
  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Lol... bigtexxx asking for a link...
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    dobro needs to learn that he can't spout "facts" unless he backs them up.
     
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  11. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    He's giving them something they already have...
    Trump to offer federal coal to industry awash in reserves

    By Timothy Gardner and Richard Valdmanis | WASHINGTON

    U.S. President Donald Trump's administration has billed his move to re-open federal lands to new coal leases as a win for miners seeking to expand production. But a review of company filings shows that coal miners with the most to gain already have enough leases in hand to last well over a decade.

    Trump will sign a decree on Tuesday to reverse former President Barack Obama's 2016 ban on new federal coal leases, part of a wide-ranging executive order to sweep away green regulations his administration says have hobbled the drilling and mining industries.

    "When we evaluate energy, let's look at the social cost of not having a job," Trump’s Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke said in a Twitter post on Tuesday ahead of the executive order.

    But companies focused on coal deposits below federal lands, such as Peabody Energy, Arch Coal, and Cloud Peak, have enough coal in the ground on existing leases to last an average of more than 17 years at 2015 sales levels, earnings reports show.

    (more at the link)
     
  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Energy.Gov for full report.

    https://www.energy.gov/downloads/us-energy-and-employment-report



    Here's a table that shows the job losses in Coal jobs in the US-

    https://www.eia.gov/coal/annual/pdf/table18.pdf

    and on Solar energy job growth-

    http://www.thesolarfoundation.org/national/

    If my math is correct here, the Solar Energy sector should have at least 60K more jobs than Coal alone very soon, and could have up to 100K more jobs if those projections are correct. The trends here should be pretty easy to see, but you know, numbers and percentages are tough for folks from the Right to wrap their head around if they don't FEEL it.

    .........

    Again if you want to simply avoid the ethical dilemma here that's fine, but from a business perspective its utter stupidity to take a step backwards from a technology & industrial standpoint to undermine an industry that is showing significant growth and JOB POTENTIAL for Americans and instead focus on an industry that has shown decline in recent years, and represents an industry that is smaller than Solar ONLY. Much less the entire Clean Energy job industry which represents millions of American Jobs... IF WE WANT THEM, and WANT TO GROW THEM.

    Let me ask a question here, and give me a serious response please. When have we as a country taken a massive step forward economically, and socially by going BACKWARDS in technology and industrial advancement??

    Forget the ethical dilemma that is destroying our environment, and poisoning our rivers etc. and focus on the business aspect if you want. Its a no-brainer IMO.

    Take all night if you want to poke holes in my theory that Coal somehow isn't the wave of the future leading to a new job boom in America putting millions to work. Energy.gov is Fake News right? Since this report is OBVIOUSLY Obama hold overs spouting propaganda to hurt Trump.
     
    #12 dobro1229, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
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  13. dmoneybangbang

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    The issue with coal is that global demand is slowing down before plateauing then inevitably declining. We export a lot of coal to Europe right now and they will be reducing their usage drastically in the coming decades.

    I'm a big believer in natural gas and would think it would be wise to use natural domestically and globablly to replace coal.
     
  14. dmoneybangbang

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    China is making vast public investments into renewable energy and will become the leading innovating in this space of we don't invest and make better policies.
     
  15. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    But the Donald makes the best business decisions ever, so we should trust him.
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Im sure BigTexx will say that's fake news and you are spouting made up false claims since you didn't provide a link.
     
  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Shocking that Trump is on TV right now trying to sell this de-regulation as a boost to the Coal Industry-

    "I said would you want another job, and they said "No I love working in the coal mines"".
     
  18. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    We should bring these back as well I am sure, think of millions of jobs that would create.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    BWAAAHAHA this just gave me some insight into who I'm dealing with here. What superficial and biased analysis on your part.

    1) You limit coal jobs to only miners? That's laughable! Think about all the power plant employees and other downstream applications using coal. Just piss poor logic on your part.
    2) Then you cite a study from "The Solar Foundation that broadly defines solar jobs as people who spend "50% of their time on solar related work". Just LOL. So would that count the Green Think Tank Hipster in Brooklyn who is blogging about climate change? Just LOL at your sorry logic.

    pwn3d
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Independent? LOL. in Trump world, we increase our chances of becoming dependent on China and others for their renewable energy technologies.
     

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