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Do you trust Ken Giles?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by what, May 16, 2017.

  1. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

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    Only two closers in history have two blown saves in the World Series. So it's hard to find comps to those two...
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Rivera blew game 7 in 2001.

    Fire him!!!

    Seriously... you should know that there’s a tad bit of difference between Mitch Williams giving up a walkoff championship winning HR vs. Ken Giles giving up runs in a tied game 4 (which also wasn’t a blown save).
     
  3. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Giles blew one save.
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I feel like this statement, while technically true, is fraud by omission. He was awful in the playoffs. Not just one outing..every outing.
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I feel like this statement is also slightly fraudulent.

    I thought the gutsy 6 out clinching save against Boston was a good performance.

    I also thought the 6 out save against the Yankees in game 1 was a good performance.

    They weren't lights out, but definitely better than the meltdown of game 2 of the WS (the one truly god-awful BS of the playoffs). In the end, he's not a guy who should be counted on to get 6 outs to close a game (and judging by most of the other closers this post-season, that really shouldn't be considered of anybody).

    And those 6 out save appearances were by necessity... thanks to equally crappy performances from Devenski, Harris, Musgrove.... which eventually led to Hinch having to go the tandem route with McCullers, Peacock and Morton all finishing games.

    Whether its Giles, Devo, Harris, Musgrove... or now Joe Smith... hopefully they'll be able to stabilize the bullpen enough for the regular season. The playoffs will be a different story, and may require a hybrid approach indefinitely.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    yes, but I'm always fraudulent. So really it's your fault for being surprised. And a little bit of Kenneth's fault as well.
     
  7. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Its always Kenneth's fault.
     
    MadMax likes this.
  8. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Trust is something that you gain or lose as you go along. If he goes strong to start spring, folks will forget about his 2017 playoff performances. If he struggles, it will be claimed there is a pattern.
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    His regular season was more than acceptable... probably better than most people had expectations for him going into last year. As we saw, the playoffs are a completely different beast for all relief pitchers.

    The good news is, nobody has any jobs by default. I've also always been a fan of future starters getting their starts as bullpen guys (if that helps Whitely get to the majors sooner).

    Would't be so quick to give up on forgotten guys like Feliz or even Martes as critical back-end relievers.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    In my very humble opinion, I think he fails to shine when the lights are brightest...and I think there's something to that. There are times it seems so evident to me in his body language than bad things are about to happen. Of course, I regularly consult with Dionne Warwick's Psychic Friends, so I'm gifted.
     
  11. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    He was. It was also, literally, 7.2 innings. It isn't even a full game's worth of data. Plus, he was asked to get multi-inning saves in three games, and in every one of those instances, he was terrific in the first inning (0.00 ERA) - often v the heart of the line-up - and terrible in the second inning (12.00 ERA).

    So if there's a significant takeaway, it's probably that Ken Giles is a 3-out closer. Also, he's still pretty young (just turned 27) and showed significant improvement over 2016. Until he does it in the playoffs, there'll always be doubt. But he's good enough to close games for a 90+-win team, IMO.
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Yep...clearly so.
     
  13. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Hinch declared “It just doesn’t matter” and went full meatballs....or u shoot the reliever, and take him out of the equation.
     
    #653 PhiSlammaJamma, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  14. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Rick with the perpetual he was good until he wasn't defense of Ken Giles. Good stuff.

    Strange how Hinch removed Giles from the closer's role in the middle of the World Series after blowing only one save.. Clearly an overreaction on his part.
     
    J.R. likes this.
  15. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Not sure why Giles doesn't learn to throw left handed.

    - DD
     
  16. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    The good news is that playoff experience may remedy this tendency. In other words, he may grow accustomed to how bright the lights are.
     
    #656 jim1961, Dec 17, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  17. the shark

    the shark Member

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    Bottom line, Giles sucked A$$ in the playoffs (no matter how some of you want to try and spin it) and he would be the first one to say so.

    He pitched in seven games and gave up runs in six of them.

    His era was a whopping 11.74

    He was SO bad in the WS, that he wasn't just demoted but the thought of even putting him in the game wasn't even an option for Hinch (see gm 5 when they were pulling guys out of the parking lot to try and get an out).

    Who gives a F about Rivera (we aren't talking about Rivera or any other pitcher). This thread is about Giles.

    He had a fantastic regular season (there is NO disputing this).

    So it became apparent that he's more effective only going an inning. Ok great. They'll take that knowledge into '18 and try to learn from it. That said, the future is the future, and his body of work in the '17 playoffs was flat out pathetic.
     
  18. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    And the answer is NO. No one trusts Ken Giles at this point.
     
  19. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Perhaps the question should be whether he will regain his form rather than how much we trust him.
     
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    ? Outside of his month or so and last month or do as an Astro, he has been good. So basically, you are saying Rick is right up until last month? That last month or so makes me think he should be viewed like Harris, a good high leverage reliever, but not elite.
     

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