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Defending freedom of speech is important, but you should know what happened then give a speech.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Emanon, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. kanariya

    kanariya Member

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    Well I guess for people who starts revolution. If they succeed they will become hero, if they fail they will become the villain if history is the guide. If Mao didn't succeed he would be just another rioter in the history of Guo Ming Dang (Currently Taiwan). There are so many things we do not know about them. How did Joshua and friend decide to be activists at age of 15? Maybe he explained in his interviews but I didn't catch those. But as of now from what I see, they are a bunch of people who loves HK and found that if they don't act soon, HK will be another city like Shen Zhen which they don't want. Even though Shen Zhen is a very rich and livable city but if you been to both places, you'll know that's no HK. You might say there's foreign influence like China claimed. Even if there is, if HK didn't already have deep issues, they probably wouldn't get much backing and supporting from the citizen. It's not like you just go out and against the gov and people will join you. There has to be valid reasons that share among people.

    There's a saying, it isn't the people going out to cause chaos. it's the gov is in chaos so people go out.
     
    Wulaw Horn likes this.
  2. leeallen

    leeallen Contributing Member

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    Here is the real report of a Aussie reporter Robert Ovadia who is a journalist of 7News Sydney

    https://www.facebook.com/RobertOvad...GkGNvcyvdn__Nv_GZ_wFvoj5HekIkq5h5nsWcOk_k6dHw

    Not assumption nor presumption.
     
  3. kanariya

    kanariya Member

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    It might be flawed but so was the common law that govern HK for a long time. As long as people were ok with it I guess. I guess at this point the people of HK just wanted what they were promised in the 1997 handover. They drafted the Basic Law and promised dual universal suffrage to be implemented within 10 years. 22 years pasted now and Beijing is getting greater influence on the election. Carry Lam took the Chief Executive role by losing the common votes. There are cases of missing CCP critic authors went missing and other things happened to the activists. Those things scare people in HK. They afraid if the extradition bill passed and their freedom of speech/press will be suppressed. CCP can basically have HK detain them and send back to China for trial with 99.4% conviction rate.
     
  4. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    It is safe to say that it might have started out like this but now it turned really ugly.

    Soon people will be begging for their lives, this makes living in HK the worst part of hell.

    So because they are scared they start behaving like criminals, beating ppl up too?
     
  5. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    I forgot the title - but New Yorker had an excellent article explaining the psyche of a large scale protest. There was a few years ago. Basically once the critical mass threshold is crossed, the momentum carries and people join often not knowing what exactly. For one the current HK government is inept to control the situation and address the complex social issues to let this escalate into this. On the other hand, you have people within the protest purposely manipulating.

    I see HK and yes I know. But the reality is HK relies on mainland for water, food, energy, economy, everything. It would not be better with the way it is going with the protest. I am focusing on more practical matters here. Ever since 1997, they are put into this situation, and this is not going to address it.
     
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  6. kanariya

    kanariya Member

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    You might see many crimes happening but there are also some rumors going on below.

    - Stealing property from shops damaged by protesters. I heard many phones were stolen in China Mobile shop after it was vandalized. Since then I think protesters stopped vandalizing some shops to prevent people stealing. Protesters are very strictly against stealing.
    - Blackmail letter sent to some shop owners to ask for money in Bitcoin. This one is very suspicious if you ask locals. The letter is written in a way with phrases local HK people or protesters seldom use like 聯盟, 視頻 and fax machine... the phrase 聯盟 you will only see from pro police rallies. The phrase 視頻 you will mostly only hear from mainlanders. And fax machine, these kids might not even know where to find one.
    - One elderly witness told the journalist that he saw a group of masked men set fire in MTR station and retreated to police base then escorted out by uniform officers.
    - One lady just said she witnessed a men masked in black threw molotov and retreated back to a police vehicle.
    - Multiple photos and videos caught PLA in riot gear. some police speaks fluent Mandarin (HK people always speak with an accent). That might explain why so many police are out there without any identification. Thought the gov denied any PLA was involved.
     
    #426 kanariya, Oct 14, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  7. kanariya

    kanariya Member

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    It's both ways. China also uses HK for some economic advantages. The momentum theory is possible which is like the Chinese students in Australia were so against the HK protest but couldn't name the five demands. But if you ask HK people they know what's the objective.
     
  8. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    The thing precisely is that the police and the mob people are now wearing black, mummifying their faces, they look pretty alike.

    I never denied that the police isn’t involved.

    I have been to HK multiple times after 1997, well, let me say the police has been a pain in the arse, molesting bystanders, but they do speak an accent too.

    I just cannot believe they dun use Cantonese dudes no more.
     
  9. kanariya

    kanariya Member

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    So yea, gov and police approval are in historic low now. This will not end soon.
     
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  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Most of those demosisto guys are twenty year olds, do you really think they have the political experience to negotiate all of those 5 points or demands, good luck with that!
     
  11. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    hmm yes it is both ways...
     
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  12. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    HK is more reliant on the Mainland than vice versa. Don't take this as a derogatory statement.

    The extradition bill is dead in the water. Popular vote to elect HK head- IMO is a nonstarter at the moment. Something they are not going to get. You don't go from nothing to there overnight in HK. Internationally, no west country is even risking with HK at the momement - see Trump's statement HK will take care of itself. And you don't ever never go to the HK independence line. As Joe Tsai put it, that's a third-rail issue. That is larger than HK. The kid mentioned Guwanju does not know the South Korean arm opened fire because Guwanju was perceived as being heavily influenced by the North and it was a sovereign issue. Of course, the then SK president Chun Doo-hwan was misinformed by his generals. The lesson is that serves no purpose and only to the detriment of what you want. No comparison between a small country like SK with China either.
    Everything else is up on the table. Let's pick ones easier than others to start with. And don't alienate the people that should be united.

    Don't think this will happen though. Seems to me it has moved from Martin Lee's old school style to much more radical voices and demands.
     
    #432 YallMean, Oct 14, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  13. kanariya

    kanariya Member

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    Yea if you wanna cherry pick. The title of the video is misleading.
     
  14. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    I'm not cherrypicking, I am just presenting fact not all protesters can name the 5 demands.
     
  15. tksense

    tksense Member

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    I’ve seen an interview during the “Baltic” human chain event where most participants could barely name one or two out of five demands.

    Quora fed this to my email so I’m sharing the goods:

    https://www.quora.com/What-will-happen-if-I-say-free-Hong-Kong-in-the-HK-city-centre

    Basically it says you’ll be ignored by police if you say free hk, whereas you’d get beat up by mobs if you say neutral or positive things about China like “we’re all chinese”. The hysteria borders on terrorism now, as we’re seeing bombs being made. The keyword “freedom”, which should be supported in principle, is actually a seriously irresponsible misnomer in the Hong Kong situation.
     
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  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    The first guy called Morey an NBA coach.
     
  17. kanariya

    kanariya Member

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    People got beat up on 7/21 by Triad and 8/31 by police for just being young or wearing black. You don't even need to shout free HK.
     
  18. kanariya

    kanariya Member

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    Well yea, all I can say is they should be more aware of what they are standing for.
     
  19. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    I think all dormant accounts that woke up like 10 years after Morey tweeted
    Should be deleted
    We know why they are here and it’s not because they love the Rockets
    They never did love the Rockets
    So they should leave and watch the CBA and pretend it’s a real basketball league
     
  20. leeallen

    leeallen Contributing Member

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    One wrongdoing cannot not be remedied by another wrongdoing. What have destroying and beating fixed anything?
    Are we back to barbarian age?

    And about the triad of 721, those were Indigenous inhabitants of Yuen Long. Their ancestors lived in Hong Kong long before the British borrowed New Territories. They own many properties in the surrounding areas including shops for Mainland travelers. Around 2015, there were anti-Individual Visit Scheme protests, organized by Localist groups, that against the inhabitants' interest. One can understand they wanted to protect themselves from the rioters. But there is no doubt that what the inhabitants did on 721 were totally wrong.
     
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