no doubt steph had an all-time regular season. i would say win shares overrates two things steph has going for him: efficiency and being an ok/below-average defender on a great defensive team. reggie miller actually beats hakeem in WS/48 because win shares likes efficiency so much (whereas PER possibly overrates volume) and obviously steph was insane that season. and so much of defensive win shares is based on team defense that playing with draymond, iggy, klay, and bogut helped him immensely. on the other hand, win shares can't see all the layups curry's teammates get when he doesn't has the ball because the defense has 2 guys running at curry 30 feet from the basket. so, it probably evened out. 0.317 is probably about right for by far the best player on a 73 win team given where the rest of the top WS/48 season come in at. of course, in an all-time ranking, the fact curry didn't come through in the finals at his peak certainly has to hurt, even if it can be argued he was slightly injured. and the fact he has only had like 5 seasons belonging with the greats.
to me, that's what separates him from duncan. hakeem has great regular season stats, duncan has great regular season stats. hakeem has great playoff stats, duncan has great playoff stats. hakeem was a defensive monster, duncan was a defensive monster. but by the time duncan turned 30, you could single cover him. 87 year old karl malone shut him down in 2004. the wallace bros shut him down in 2005. tyson chandler in single coverage held him to 41% in 2008. then pau gasol in single coverage held him to 41% in 2008. these weren't times of just duncan being a good teammate and not scoring a lot because he was all about winning. these were times his team needed him. needed him to dominate. the lakers came back from 0-2 to win in 2004. the pistons took the spurs to 7 with horry saving game 5. new orleans went to 7 and the lakers won 4-1. now obviously duncan did something right to have great playoff stats, but there were just so many times that i, as someone who was rooting against the spurs, was happy that duncan had the ball instead of ginobili or parker. i don't think anyone ever thought "oh good, hakeem's got the ball." and then of course there just the popovich factor. duncan retired and the next year the spurs won 60+ and had the #1 defense. then kawhi gets hurt all year and they're like 4th in the west.
In defense of Duncan, he did hit a go-ahead fadeaway over shaq with 1.2 seconds to go in game 4 of that playoff series, only for Derek Fisher to hit a game winner with .4 seconds left.
fascinating side note. the year hakeem had the only 200 block, 200 steal season in nba history (finishing 3rd in total blocks and 3rd in total steals), he also led the league in rebounds and defensive rebounds. also was #1 in defensive rating. so he won DPOY and they renamed the award after him, right? nope, went to dennis rodman. but okay, the bad boy pistons were in their heyday and dennis rodman was their lynch pin. so a first team all-defense center spot. pretty good. oh wait, that went to mark eaton. averaged 0.3 more blocks than hakeem and 2.1 less steals and 3 less rebounds. 2nd in DRtg, but that ain't first. ok, so voters screwed up, he got 2nd. nope, patrick ewing. 0.1 more blocks, 1 less steals, 4(!) less rebounds. not in top 10 in defensive rating. so only 200 block/200 steal season in nba history, lead league in rebounds, finish first in defensive rating. don't even make an all-defense team. kobe has 9 all-defensive 1st teams.
hakeem would've left 0.3 . but seriously, that led to one of the few accurate shaq quotes ever: "one lucky shot deserves another." don't know how duncan made that shot.
so nash was 19. not sure i can abide that. he makes a good point that the best 4 year run for an offense, relative to league average, was dallas in nash's last 4 years there. and the 2nd best 4 years was phoenix in nash's first 4 years there. that seems pretty good. but he also points out they were offensively loaded teams whose coaches shifted their personnel heavily toward offense and away from defense, with dirk and amare getting big center minutes. there's no doubt nash was great. arguably the greatest pre-curry shooter. could score and assist in both halfcourt and transition and led great offenses. and was maybe an amare controversial suspension from a title so it's not like his team's sucked. but his career took so much time to really take off and it's really hard to know what he does on an undermanned offensive team that he has to carry with scoring as opposed to loaded teams for which he was the perfect point guard.
Dream gets little or no respect outside of H-town. His mid 80's team was on the verge of wrestling basketball supremacy for years to come when the original basketball reasons* happened.
http://www.businessinsider.com/david-stern-really-does-know-where-the-bodies-are-buried-2011-3 But what makes this such a crazy moment in the NBA's ongoing labor drama isn't that Stern "knows where the bodies are buried", but that he felt compelled to, as it were, unbury the fact that he knew where the dead were buried.
Dirk at 18, worse than most of us predicted. Thursday (spot 14) will indicate if Hakeem is top 8. It's got to be Kobe at 14... 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. Wilt Chamberlain 10. Magic Johnson 11. Larry Bird 12. Oscar Robertson 13. Karl Malone 14. 15. David Robinson 16. Julius Erving 17. Jerry West 18. Dirk Nowitzki 19. Steve Nash 20. Charles Barkley 21. Chris Paul 22. Dwyane Wade 23. Scottie Pippen 24. Moses Malone 25. John Stockton 26. 27. Patrick Ewing 28. Rick Barry 29. Reggie Miller 30. Bob Pettit 31-40.
Jordan, Kareem, James, Curry, Russell, Garnett, Bryant, Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan are left. 10 players for 9 premium positions. 1 of them is out of the top 25. That's crazy. Russell, my favorite, could be out, but I hope it's Kobe.
No way Bill Russell. I think it will be Garnett or Curry. Probably Curry, because he's only had 6 all-star caliber seasons thus far. Still kind of early for him.
Good question. I’d put Durant over Curry right now career wise, but I could see him slotting Curry higher because of how dominant his team had been.
I think it will be 1. Jordan 2. LeBron 3. Kareem 4. Shaq 5. Russell 6. Duncan 7. Hakeem 8. Bryant 14. Curry 26. Garnett Odd man out Durant.
top 8 is Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, Duncan, Garnett and Hakeem. Kobe is 14th, Durant 26th.
I would love to watch two even teams in the playoffs with Duncan/Hakeem in their primes. My money would be on Hakeem.
I'm not a gambler. But you think Garnett had a better career than any of these guys? Jordon LeBron Kareem Shaq Hakeem Duncan Russell Kobe
