Another Day Another Uneducated Angry White Trumpanzee

CW race baiting again

I did nazi that coming

 

Argument ad hominem (and not even accurate in that, I've apologized for no Nazis, and have in fact condemned them and all other forms of racism and identity politics generally). That sure proves your point. Why use actual evidence when you can blindly call someone racist, Nazi, or "Nazi apologist"?

 

Yes, I have certainly said that black men impregnating unmarried black women is not an example of racism by whites, institutional or otherwise, as that is a free choice made by the parties involved. Maybe there is some rash of whitey forcing black men to impregnate unmarried black women that I am unaware of though. Do you have a link to an article or a study I could look at? Can you show me a single instance of this happening after say the end of the civil war? White men impregnating unmarried white women is likewise not an example of racism by blacks. Again, it is a free choice made by the involved parties. Most things in life are like that. Going to jail for stealing a car? Free choice to steal the car. Joining the military? Free choice for the enlistee (assuming the minimum requirements are met). The overwhelming driving force in a person's life is the choices that person makes, not environmental factors external to them. Are there exceptions to this? Of course. If you are killed by a drunk driver at age seven, there aren't a ton of other choices you could have made to improve your lot in life. Those exceptions do not invalidate the basic concept though.

Studies have shown that people who graduate high school, don't have kids out of wedlock, and don't get married before 25 are over 90% likely to not be in poverty, regardless of race. All of those are individual choices that a person can make. Keep pounding away at that victim narrative though. Maybe there is a secret cabal of whites that are colluding to exclude black people from education, employment, etc. I have not seen any evidence of it (quite the contrary, there are programs in place specifically to encourage black success), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm sure one study that says a resume named Nigel gets more call backs than one named Jamal can prove up deeply entrenched institutional racism though.

A bank is a private entity. They should be able to make whatever loans they choose under whatever terms they choose that the borrower is willing to accept. That's what freedom to contract means. Don't like the terms this bank is offering you, go to a different bank.

Yeah, none of those positions have anything to do with racism or nazi-ism. They are about free market meritocracy.

 

Do you give these little lectures to your clients? I'm sure they go over well.

 

Sometimes, if they ask me for any kind of life advice. Most of them generally talk about their case and beyond that general small talk. Honestly, for most people this is common sense stuff.

 

Can you elaborate on how you slip this into the conversation? This sounds like an incredibly awkward social interaction given your line of work and stated locality. But I'm genuinely intrigued to listen to how you spread this Randian gospel amongst the nonwhite masses. It must really be something!

 

How do I slip into a conversation that someone's current situation is based largely on their life choices and not generally on outside factors? It isn't that hard. Sometimes a client will be whining about how they don't think they should have to go to jail just because they did (insert crime here). Then we kind of need to dig into what the facts of their case are, and how it wasn't the cops, or society, or whatever that had them selling drugs, or carrying a gun as a felon, or whathaveyou, but their own choices. I then show them that they have another choice ahead of them, and it isn't an easy one to make. They can accept a plea bargain or fight the case at trial. We go over possible defenses, the consequences of losing at trial and an analysis of the strength of the case. The defendant comes to an understanding that they have ownership of the situation they find themselves in (unless they really didn't do it, or it was one of those incredibly rare situations where their hand was forced) and they get to decide how to proceed. Whether or not they take anything from it besides the immediate decisions before them, I don't know, but at least one client has thanked me for opening his eyes (in a case involving a toxic relationship).

 

I'm completely on the, it's ultimately your choice.

I'm not sure there is a free choice, or free will. I think it's an illusion. But let's assume it's not and you do have full control...

If you make the assumption, and I do, that on avg, the mind (thing you use to make choices) of all people are the same, then the ability to make their free choice is the same.

How do you explain that some group (Black) end up on avg, doing more "stupid" things?

You can said, the assumption is wrong, the mind is different between this group and that group. Some people do this.

Or, the environmental factors explain the avg.

You have much less control over people's choice, and more control over the environmental factors. An individual have much less control over the environmental factors, and much more over their choice.

The good thing is you can affect both other people choice and the environmental factors. But if you ignore the significant of either of those, your attempt to help is limited. Both are needed. Just continue banging on "make better decision" while not addressing the external factors will not likely address the avg state of the group. Not for a long long long time, given how significant it was, and although much improved, how it continue.

 

Why do you make this assumption? What data do you base it on. Do you also assume that on average the body (thing that contains the brain/mind) of all people are the same?

Could be any number of factors: cultural influences, biology, environment, selecting based off of different criteria, etc.

The assumption may or may not be wrong, but thus far it seems baseless. What measures are you using to determine that there is no difference in the people on average, and thus attribute differential outcomes to the environment.

Certainly, if everything else is equal, the environment would seem to be the culprit.

Why is it anyone else's responsibility to address the average state of the group? Should you do thing that are obviously bad on their face to address differential outcomes, like treat people differently based on skin color? What should by the ultimate goal? In which areas should these differential outcomes be addressed and in which ignored?

 

Hydra, I do think we all have to make choices and encouraging the best possible choices is fine.

But let's say you set up a footrace between two people. One person gets a normal lane of a normal quarter mile track, and the inside lane at that, while wearing his favorite running shoes. Then, the other person gets the outside lane, which is also full of muddy potholes, and has to wear combat boots while carrying a sixty-pound pack. The "rules" say that the two people must stay in their lanes. The "rules" also give the inside lane guy a 15 second head start.

Maybe the guy in the outside lane at some point says "screw these rules" and goes outside his lane, or sits down to work on removing the pack and boots.

Yes, it's easy to say "play by the rules we set up in a power system that we built, in a country that benefitted greatly from the chained labor of your forebears." It is another thing to genuinely consider everyone around you an equal human being and really try to put yourself in their shoes and listen to them. Not an easy thing to do.

You can claim you would be where you are today if you grew up in a Chicago project with very little parenting or role-modeling or decent K-12 education. You can claim that, but until we have a parallel Earth to run that experiment, some of us will remain skeptical.

I myself might be dead if I were of black skin. A nervous young HPD officer drew down on me at close range. My skin color and glasses probably made him feel just barely safe enough not to squeeze off a round. It was a close call. But that too would take a parallel earth.

 

lol sure, he was just accidentally racist. He just picked a random number that just happened to match a reference to a white supremacist group. How can people accept this guy's apology? This guy is similar to a lot of white people. Say the right things in public, act racist in private or hidden.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/08/politics/barack-obama-nazi-germany/index.html

So..... I see all over the place that Right Wingers are all over this today with the faux outrage of "HOW DARE YOU INVOKE NAZI'S" in response to a very eloquently put statement about the importance of staying politically active in a Democracy.

Before the wingnuts follow Limbaugh and others here in the faux outrage just so they can bring back Obama as a political punching bag I have to remind you folks about this -

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/donald-trump-nazi-comparison.html

and this-

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/us/politics/sean-spicer-hitler-gas-holocaust-center.html

Trump actually compared his own government to Nazi Germany okay.... Give me a GDamn break with the faux outrage. If you actually listen to what Obama is saying, he isn't fear mongering and telling people to riot in the street. We are in a time and place where, not just our president, but quite a few world leaders are invoking many of the same things that leaders did in post WWI where they took an aggrieved working class, encouraged public distrust of the media, propagated lies, and seized power through consolidating their government.

Trump is nothing abnormal in this political climate. He's trying to do the same thing leaders like Putin did a few years back, and looks up to what guys like Duterte, and Erdogan have been doing. Obama is talking much larger than doing some pointed political attack on Trump.

Nationalism is back, and it has to be talked about out in the open how it led to a World War years ago. Sorry if that offends Right Wing talk radio nutcases sorry but its the truth. If they can't handle invoking Nazi Germany than they should be more upset with Trump and Sean Spicer who invoked it while in power to seize more power in office. Obama is not president anymore.... he's entitled to say whatever the F he wants to. Lord knows Trump says whatever he wants to about Obama.

 

The title of this thread alone speaks for itself on who the true racist is.