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Another Day Another Uneducated Angry White Trumpanzee

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by CometsWin, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The idea that leftists and especially leftist groups organized around race are immune somehow from being racists is what is 180 degrees incorrect.
     
  2. zksb09

    zksb09 Member

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    Good to do a little more checking on this.
    Here is what the victim himself had to say:
    "I honestly dont think antifa had anything to do with this"
    Status on this is unproven from
    http://www.snopes.com/did-antifa-stab-vermont-man/
     
  3. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    How to Make Fun of Nazis

    For decades, Wunsiedel, a German town near the Czech border, has struggled with a parade of unwanted visitors. It was the original burial place of one of Adolf Hitler’s deputies, a man named Rudolf Hess. And every year, to residents’ chagrin, neo-Nazis marched to his grave site. The town had staged counterdemonstrations to dissuade these pilgrims. In 2011 it had exhumed Hess’s body and even removed his grave stone. But undeterred, the neo-Nazis returned. So in 2014, the town tried a different tactic: humorous subversion.

    The campaign, called Rechts Gegen Rechts — the Right Against the Right — turned the march into Germany’s “most involuntary walkathon.” For every meter the neo-Nazis marched, local residents and businesses pledged to donate 10 euros (then equivalent to about $12.50) to a program that helps people leave right-wing extremist groups, called EXIT Deutschland.

    They turned the march into a mock sporting event. Someone stenciled onto the street “start,” a halfway mark and a finish line, as if it were a race. Colorful signs with silly slogans festooned the route. “If only the Führer knew!” read one. “Mein Mampf!” (my munch) read another that hung over a table of bananas. A sign at the end of the route thanked the marchers for their contribution to the anti-Nazi cause — €10,000 (close to $12,000). And someone showered the marchers with rainbow confetti at the finish line.

    The approach has spread to several other German towns and one in Sweden (where it was billed as Nazis Against Nazis).

    This week, following the violence in Charlottesville, Va., Wunsiedel has come back into the news. Experts in nonviolent protest say it could serve as a model for Americans alarmed by the resurgent white supremacist movement who are looking for an effective way to respond (and who might otherwise be tempted to meet violence with violence). Those I spoke with appreciated the sentiment of the antifa, or anti-fascist, demonstrators who showed up in Charlottesville, members of an anti-racist group with militant and anarchist roots who are willing to fight people they consider fascists. “I would want to punch a Nazi in the nose, too,” Maria Stephan, a program director at the United States Institute of Peace, told me. “But there’s a difference between a therapeutic and strategic response.”

    The problem, she said, is that violence is simply bad strategy.

    Violence directed at white nationalists only fuels their narrative of victimhood — of a hounded, soon-to-be-minority who can’t exercise their rights to free speech without getting pummeled. It also probably helps them recruit. And more broadly, if violence against minorities is what you find repugnant in neo-Nazi rhetoric, then “you are using the very force you’re trying to overcome,” Michael Nagler, the founder of the Peace and Conflict Studies program at the University of California, Berkeley, told me.

    Most important perhaps, violence is just not as effective as nonviolence. In their 2011 book, “Why Civil Resistance Works,” Dr. Stephan and Erica Chenoweth examined how struggles are won. They found that in over 320 conflicts between 1900 and 2006, nonviolent resistance was more than twice as effective as violent resistance in achieving change. And nonviolent struggles were resolved much sooner than violent ones.

    The main reason, Dr. Stephan explained to me, was that nonviolent struggles attracted more allies more quickly. Violent struggles, on the other hand, often repelled people and dragged on for years.

    Their findings highlight what we probably already intuit about protest: It’s a performance not just for the people you may be protesting against but also for everyone else who may be persuaded to join your side.

    Take the American civil rights movement. Part of what moved the country toward the Civil Rights Act of 1964 were the images, broadcast to the entire country, of steadfastly nonviolent protesters, including women and occasionally children, being beaten, hosed and abused by white policemen and mobs.

    Those images also highlight two points emphasized by Stephanie Van Hook, the executive director of the Metta Center for Nonviolence. First, nonviolence is a discipline, and as with any discipline, you need to practice to master it. Nonviolence training was a fixture of the movement. Even the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and his companions rehearsed in basements, role playing and insulting one another to prepare for what was to come.

    And second, sometimes being on the receiving end of violence is the whole point. That’s how you expose the hypocrisy and rot you’re struggling against. They attack unprovoked. You don’t counterattack. You’re hurt. The world sees. Hearts change. It takes tremendous courage: Your body ends up being the canvas that bears the evidence of the violence you’re fighting against.

    But ideally, of course, we’d avoid violence altogether. This is where the sort of planning on display at Wunsiedel is key. Humor is a particularly powerful tool — to avoid escalation, to highlight the absurdity of absurd positions and to deflate the puffery that, to the weak-minded at any rate, might resemble heroic purpose.

    Germany is not America. For one, neo-Nazis aren’t allowed to carry assault rifles through the streets there, let alone display swastikas. But we do have similar examples of humor being used to counteract fascists in the United States. In 2012, a “white power” march in Charlotte, N.C., was met with counterprotesters dressed as clowns. They held signs reading “wife power” and threw “white flour” into the air.

    “The message from us is, ‘You look silly,’ ” a coordinator told the local news channel. “We’re dressed like clowns, and you’re the ones that look funny.”

    By undercutting the gravitas white supremacists are trying to accrue, humorous counterprotests may blunt the events’ usefulness for recruitment. Brawling with bandanna-clad antifas may seem romantic to some disaffected young men, but being mocked by clowns? Probably not so much.

    Which brings us to Charlottesville, and the far right rallies that will surely follow. To those wondering how to respond, Dr. Stephan says that “nonviolent movements succeed because they invite mass participation.” Humor can do that; violence less so.

    The broader issue, in her view, is this: Why do oppressive regimes and movements invest so much in fomenting violence? (Think of our president and his talent for dividing the country and generating chaos.) Because violence and discord help their cause. So why would you, she asks, “do what the oppressor wants you to do?”
     
    B-Bob likes this.
  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  5. RocketsLegend

    RocketsLegend Member

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    "The president was so wrong to condemn both sides"


     
  6. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    I don't think that many are denying that there are left wing protesters who become violent or broke the law.

    What I would argue is that, even given this being the case, it is still wrong to draw equivalence between "both sides" when one of these sides include Nazis and white supremacists chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "Sieg Heil". I certainly don't think that anyone marching with them are "very fine people."

     
    #1266 Carl Herrera, Aug 19, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
    Hakeemtheking likes this.
  7. zksb09

    zksb09 Member

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    Were all the protesters left wing? Do moderately right wing people, who are not bigots, ever protest these Nazi rallies?
     
  8. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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  9. zksb09

    zksb09 Member

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    Creating jobs
     
    No Worries and NewRoxFan like this.
  10. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Gig economy, LOL.
     
    No Worries and NewRoxFan like this.
  11. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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  12. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Tried to swallow the evidence, literally.


    >'The ranger said Schneck took a drink from a plastic bottle but immediately spit it out.
     
  13. Hakeemtheking

    Hakeemtheking Member

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    Is this chit real?? No wonder people believe that Trump is a con man. Politicians lie, but this guy is something else. Shame...
     
    No Worries likes this.
  14. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Greatest president ever! MAGA.
     
  15. el gnomo

    el gnomo Member

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  16. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    Why would you believe it's real? Do you believe everything you read on the internet?
     
    Astrodome likes this.
  17. Hakeemtheking

    Hakeemtheking Member

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    Silly response. Smdh...

    Coming from a scumbag for prez, yeah, that would not be a surprise at all.
     
  18. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

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    RocketsLegend is mad that they are only hiring minorities. Yet another example of minorities taking the white man's jobs in America.
     
    No Worries and CometsWin like this.
  19. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    How is that silly? It's a craigslist ad. Anyone can make those. Until there's proof linking it to Donald, it's as valid as my belief that Hillary Clinton is Voldemort.
     
  20. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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