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Advice On Complex Career Choice?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by napalm06, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    You're right about my contract position. I'd put my odds of staying on at 90/10 but I probably won't fully know until it's too late. Classes begin August, but my Adobe contract runs through mid-October (I can cancel it in special circumstances, like this... and they're also already talking about making a position for me but it requires budget approval from the team in San Fran through which I'm routed, yadda yadda). Hence the tough decision. I haven't received the university's full offer in writing yet, only via a phone call with the director of the MBA program; that will come next week. Those are things I've thought about. They said a "living stipend" is something they're considering. I would like to have the MSBA degree certainly; I'm not sold on the MBA.

    Option C - do nothing doesn't appeal to me necessarily for two reasons - I would like the hard credentials, and I would like the salary bump. A couple of years ago I was a category manager in Phoenix making $80K; now (after pivoting industries to software and data analytics without hard paper credentials) I'm looking at $50K indefinitely unless I can negotiate a miracle out of Adobe. Of course, all of this shifts once the degree is completed. Also factoring into play is that Utah's career placement guys have at least a basic relationship with Adobe, so that further strengthens my existing connections with Adobe and lowers the risk (at least partially) of breaking back in.
    It does, kind of. But I have a GMAT 720 and some project leadership experience and relationships across two Fortune 500 companies, which isn't great at an Ivy League school but is huge for a Utah school. I think they're offering the full-ride because I would be a bump to the quality of their incoming class and a potentially great representative after graduation. The reason the 'quit the workforce' thing comes into play is not because they actually want me to quit Adobe (that I worked for Adobe was a draw for them). Rather, in order for me two receive both degrees for the price of one, full-time school would be required because they're going to enroll me in a certain blend of classes that is essentially the workload of one degree but fulfills the requirements of both. It's a pretty interesting deal.
     
    #21 napalm06, Jun 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  2. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Take it from a guy that has two Masters--it's not as glamorous as you think it is. It will definitely open doors for you when it comes time to hunt for jobs but if you're content at Adobe (and if the possibility of being laid off is close to zero) why even entertain option B?

    Some have already said this but I'll go ahead and echo their posts--that "$110k" salary is to rope you in. Full ride sounds awesome but then you have to look at the trade offs:

    -quit a job you're perfectly happy with
    -spent almost 2 years in school to finish your degrees

    this doesn't tack on the fact that there's probably a reason why they suggest you quit your current job...because the program is probably rigorous enough that you won't even be able to keep a part time job.

    Here's my opinion/advice: if you MUST pick between those two options, pick A. You keep your current job (which you love), finish your Masters, and don't have to reinsert yourself into the job hunt market in two years.

    But here's another advice that I pass onto all of my friends seeking an MBA or the like: unless the next position on your career roadmap requires you to obtain an MBA, don't get one. Where you can concentrate more of your time in on is the certifications on various platforms like SQL, Python and other things like LEAN Six Sigma. Those require less money and less time for you to obtain. Hell, Adobe might even pay for those certifications. I work in the IT field and if I had to pick between two resumes to hire, one with an MBA and no technical certs and the other without an MBA but has the technical knowledge, I'd pick the latter one every time.

    If you're young then money will come to you through work experience and networking. An MBA guarantees absolutely nothing as far as salary is concerned.
     
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  3. Mr. Brightside

    Mr. Brightside Contributing Member

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    Option A. Quitting a job will leave you with sudden stress of figuring out how to pay bills without dipping into your savings.

    Furthermore, you also have to factor in the issue of graduating during a recession. This can certainly be an issue within the next two years as we haven't seen a correction since 2008.

    I remember some of my friends who had good paying Wall Street jobs. They quit their work and graduated MBA at the height of the financial crisis. They ended up accepting jobs worse than before they went to their MBA program.

    A future job is not guaranteed by any means. College counselors/advisors aren't looking out in your best interest, but rather the best interest of their institution. Remember you will be out of the workforce for a couple of years and in a technical field. So future employers will want to know how you have kept updated with the latest developments in your field. If you aren't currently working that might be more difficult to answer.
     
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  4. AroundTheWorld

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    Have you thought about the possibility of an Executive MBA (ideally with a scholarship, of course). That way, you could keep your job and get the MBA on the side.

    If you have a good relationship with your manager at Adobe, perhaps they could even (partly) sponsor the tuition (and raise your salary once you get the degree)?
     
  5. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    That's the thing, I'm not truly interested in an MBA. It only came up because the University reached out to me and offered this dual program. And I believe (could be wrong) that the Executive MBA requires a certain level of career management experience.

    As for your second point, you're correct. Adobe will sponsor $10K/year and I could take my fate in my own hands in terms of delivering quality work and negotiating a raise.
     
  6. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Very wise post, and it echoes the more grounded voice in my head. Masters aren't as glamorous as they seem, and if things are good, sometimes it's not worth breaking them.
    You're right that 2 years of vapid MBA classes are not appealing. I'm worried about burnout or losing motivation after a year.

    As for your last point - you and I feel the same way, you'd rather take the technical go-getter instead of the MBA goon, but the companies here don't seem to feel the same. Growing up in Houston (and then a stopover for several years in Phoenix) I never had much trouble in the job hunt. In Utah, it was constant rejection late in the interview process - over and over. Still, I am leaning against the MBA route. Something about getting an MBA just doesn't feel 100% right.

    Your take also mirrors my initial reaction, too. You make some good points as to why the risks for option B may not be worth it.

    Option A feels better, even if Option B is a little sexier on paper.
     
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  7. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    I'd say option B easily. That $110k number is juiced and if you're really happy doing what you're doing and the path you're on, and don't have a direct and immediate need for this particular degree, then why give up what you already know you like?

    I don't even know yet what my dream job would be (Morey's personal trainer??) but if I got it I probably wouldn't leave it.
     
  8. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Did you mean option A then? That's the one where I keep the job and do night school. I'm guessing by 'juiced' you mean over-exaggerated.

    Yeah option B was winning around here in the early going but it looks like the more people stew on it, the more option A just makes sense. Money isn't everything, quality of life is what matters.
     
  9. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    Oops, yeah I meant Adobe + option of night school.

    Also just to be clear you work for the car company right?

    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/adobe/n9492?snl=1
     
  10. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Here's my question to you: were you rejected from those jobs because you didn't have an MBA or were you rejected because there were more "polished and qualified" applicants out there? It's probably the latter and that's where certs and training can make you a stronger candidate.

    If you're still young (e.g. under 30) you have a LOT of time left to go back to school. Hell, even if you're in your early 30s you still have a lot of time left. If you love your job then make a career out of it within that organization. If your next dream position is in management at Adobe, find out if those guys have MBAs and find out how long they've been working in the industry. Chances are, maybe half at best has an MBA. More often than not your company is going to look at your work experience at the company, what technical skills you've obtained during your time at Adobe, your job performance, and most importantly how well you network.

    If the juice isn't worth the squeeze then step away. Why saddle yourself with either 20K in debt (option A) or working part time and not making the same income for 2 years (option B) if you're not aspiring to move up the ladder right now?
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    To be honest, it sounds like you don't actually know what your dream job is because no one's DREAM job is to be an employee in someone else's dream job. You must have a bigger dream than that. What is that dream? Have you thought about it? Don't let people drag you down. Dream big, dream future, dream about what you would do on a daily basis if you were rich and retired - other than just kicking back.

    In the meantime, just make the most money for the least # hours you have to give up. The only goal here is to get money out of their pocket into yours, and if it's useful to you then also get the most information out of their network into your mind. Maybe over the long term, it turns out the MBA is best financially. Literally sit down with a calculator and figure it out. Don't just accept what a recruiter tells you you're going to make, do research. Don't ignore the possibility that if we hit a major global economic crisis just as you're finishing your MBA, you will have kind of wasted two years (and we're due for a crisis, and this happened to my friend in 2008). Just make and save the most money with the least hours. Make use of the hours and money you save to advance yourself. As long as you are working for someone else and don't know what you want to do by yourself, all that matters is how much cash you take home. If you know what you want to do, then you can also take positives from your employment being closely aligned with your independent plans.

    If you plan to be an employee most of your life, then don't bother with the MBA. Just switch jobs every 3 years unless your current employer makes an offer you can't refuse. Proven to yield the most dinero, and the variety if experiences will accelerate the process of knowing what you want to do as a non-employee.
     
  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    well played :cool:
     
  13. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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  14. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Yes, I was rejected because people had more polished analytics experience. And yes, I'm 29. I wouldn't mind getting the jump start that a young masters gives though, and then be done with school forever.
     
  15. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    What you say makes sense of course but I have a more casual work philosophy. At the core it's not my dream job, but within feasible constraints it is. My quality of life is the best it's ever been, to the extent that I wouldn't bother even risking another job hunt if the lucrative school offer weren't on the table.

    Of course I'd like to work for myself but you don't force that kind of thing. Or at least I don't. I view my current career as building a toolset to give myself maximum long term flexibility.
     
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  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    Hey, I've been there. I was making $125k a year when I was 24. But as long as you don't know what you would want to do when you work for yourself, you are making these decisions in the dark. I spent so much on qualifications that are useless to me today, vacations, etc. You gotta know where you're headed.

    Maximum flexibility is not the most efficient thing I think. But it sounds like you're on a good path, best of luck with your decision. You know yourself best.
     
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  17. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    What's your suggested alternative? Entrepreneurial route?
     
  18. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    @napalm_black

    You seem to be leaning towards option B because it *seems* like a no brainer.

    But I think your heart is really with option A.

    Also, when you look below the surface, I and a few others still think option A is better. I think most people just saw "$110k?" and "full ride?!?" And immediately assumed option B is better.

    Additionally, I think a lot of the people hyping the MBA have no idea what they're talking about. People in data science, or any competitive quantitative field usually don't give a **** about an MBA.

    I understand you want to be a project manager. I think you've chosen a pretty decent path to get there. Do the masters that ends sooner (while still working) and do some certifications per @steddinotayto suggestion.

    I think that's a much better option - in terms of being personally fulfilling and career advancing - than wasting time on a brainless MBA.

    Full disclosure: I think MBA's are idiotic and serve no purpose. I feel like a degree where all you do is talk about your feelings for a year is the most pointless thing ever. I understand not all MBA's are equal. Not all are like this. But a lot are.
     
    #38 DudeWah, Jun 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
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  19. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    True dat. Good post.

    I have an interview day this Saturday with the MBA faculty / directors; I'll be able to ask questions there and maybe come away with a stronger feeling of whether the MBA program is or isn't for me. Next week I'll receive the offer in writing from the university, including whether they are going to throw in a living stipend for rent & groceries. I'll have a tough decision to make.

    One thing I do know is that most of the MBA grads at Adobe are sales people (customer success managers) and directors or above. Like you said, technical people actually pushing the product and processes could generally care less about MBA's; my opinion of an MBA is similar to yours. Lots of grandstanding and intangible rewards.

    Again, the problem with option A is that Adobe is not surefire. But it's already 90% and I can use all of the accolades & offers from the university as bargaining chips with Adobe if I play it smartly. Time will tell.

    There isn't really a "wrong" answer in this case, but that's part of what makes it challenging to sort out.
     
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  20. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    I don't think you should jump into it. I just think you could make these decisions very easily if you sat down alone with no sound/video on anywhere for a few hours and thought about what the end goal is.

    2 very simple questions to think about (and not necessarily answer immediately):
    1) What work would I do every day if I didn't need money?
    2) What skills and resources do I need to do that independently on a scale that would satisfy me financially?

    Now you have a road map. Being an employee - no matter how awesome the job - is still being an employee in someone else's dream. Adobe exists because there was a smart guy like you who wasn't content with working for someone else. And everyone told him how unlikely his goals were. Worked for them, can work for you. The field you're in is getting more and more mature with knowledge and competition, but there are tremendous opportunities to go solo when you're ready in the future. Just get an idea if where your head is at.

    This always sounds like I'm talking down when I say it and I really really don't mean it that way, but maybe you like just being told what to produce, producing it, and getting cash for it. If that works for you, then maybe that is what you want. In reality, we become employees out of necessity. We are all instilled with the passion to create SOMETHING. Whatever that thing is for you, you gotta find it and only you can find it by essentially clearing your mind and communicating with yourself for a little while. Will go a long way.
     

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