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3rd Attempt: GOP/Trump Repeal & Replace ACA and Trump lie about pre-exist coverage

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Trumpcare looking like a disaster.

    But, to be fair, who ever really thought healthcare could be so complicated?
     
    NewRoxFan and FranchiseBlade like this.
  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    He will just blame Obama and that will play well enough for him.
     
  4. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Yes, when you don't force people that don't want health insurance to pay into the system, you are going to end up with higher premiums and more uninsured people. Why would anyone attack Trump for not forcing people to subsidize the healthcare of others? If you want a system where everyone is forced to pay in, just have single payer, not this half-measure gift to the insurance industry.
     
  5. rimbaud

    rimbaud Contributing Member
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    Ok, then we have to have hospitals refuse care for the uninsured or underinsured. If you can’t pay upfront you can’t get care. Otherwise arguments about subsidizing others are stupid.
     
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  6. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Yes, we would have to eliminate the far more expensive backdoor subsidies that require hospitals to treat all patients regardless of their ability to pay. As I have said before, I would propose a tiered healthcare system, wherein one could go to a government funded and run clinic and receive health care at no direct cost, with a separate system wherein those who have coverage or can pay out of pocket can receive private care, most likely of a higher quality and with reduced wait times. The government run clinics would not turn people away, but there would be no requirement of treatment at the private facilities.
     
  7. rimbaud

    rimbaud Contributing Member
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    You mean like the U.K.?
     
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  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Ok, as you wish, we should have single payer...
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    And Norway, et alia.
     
  10. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    You have a point, though the stereotypical "libertarian" analysis is not helpful. If someone who is not into the "Virtue of Selfishness" as Ayn Rand one of the "libertarian" patron saints named one of her books, proposes single payer funded by taxes of any sort than you just trot out the old "taxation is theft" meme.
     
  11. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Or like Canada, but I would probably put fewer resources into the public system and have resultant longer wait times but also less onerous taxes required to foot the bill.
     
  12. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Check this out a clip from a couple of years ago.
     
  13. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Yes, as the lady said, Australia moved to a two tiered system. Increased wait times (for those in the public system, no wait times for those in the private system).
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I know the question was rhetorical, but the reason is that a single-payer system is a monopsony with an acute principal/agent problem, and all the inefficiency that that entails. The point of the 'half-measure' is to leverage competitive market forces to drive economic efficiency. It's ironic to see our conservatives advocate for single-payer as a better alternative to the Heritage Foundation solution.
     
  15. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Yes when Australia moved from one tier(single player system) to a two tier system wait times increased for the majority of the population
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Yes, for the portion of the population relying on the government system. Health care has three prongs, you can have it good, you can have it cheap, and you can have it fast, but you can only have two of those at best.
     
  17. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    And as in the video posted the two tier system in Australia increased wait times.
     
  18. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Yes, it increased wait times for those in the government system. Those in the private system didn't have long wait times or bad care, they just had to pay. Fast, good, but not cheap.
     
  19. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    But the reason or why they switched to the two tier system was to decrease the over all wait times of the health care system which had the opposite effect. Not only that the rich were the ones that benefited from it at the expense(increased wait times) of the poor
     
  20. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    That is totally irrelevant to my point, and also should have been readily apparent with a modicum of thought to anyone considering it. You cannot take your existing healthcare system, split off a bunch of the providers, have a much smaller percentage of the population have access to those providers that left, and then expect the remaining providers to have reduced wait times for the people that remained. That is like taking a four lane highway and turning one of the lanes into a toll lane and expecting reduced traffic in the remaining three lanes. The toll lane will move along briskly, but the traffic in the remaining free lanes will be worse than before.

    That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. You get the benefit of providing a good experience for those willing to pay a premium (pun intended), while everyone else gets something at least, and the government footing the bill for them.
     

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