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2019 Hong Kong Protest

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Does that mean the Chinese people are ready for war? These "provocations" by Taiwan are more of the same, just a different leader.

    What has changed?
     
  2. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Trump.
     
  3. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    Again, wasn't this only a 50 year deal? Even a victory for maintaining freedoms would only be contractually temporary.
     
  4. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Does this mean it's over for good Hong Kong movies?
    And we just have super crappy movies about how China is the good guy and Japan and America are the bad guys?
    No more John Woo, No more Jackie Chan no more Shaw brothers

    We're just going to dog crap like this

     
  5. Roomba

    Roomba Member
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    In my opinion, if the deal was 50 years, then wait 50 years and THEN start making big changes. It’s not a good look to just change your mind halfway through and just go “nah, let’s bring ‘em into the fold right now”.

    I can’t say I understand all of the people of HK’s frustrations because I don’t and never have lived there, but I’m sure there’s a lot of stuff simmering under the surface.
     
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  6. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    You are correct from a moral standpoint, but morality is relative, and I think the people running the CCP are coming from a long-term practicality. If you have all these freedoms protected for a special territory (which is a source of historical shame from being made England's b**** from their Imperialism days), then if you keep these protections strong for 50 years, when the time comes when the deal is over, it will be very difficult to remove those freedoms even though that was the deal. If you erode the freedoms over time, I think they view it as an easier process.

     
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  7. MightyMog

    MightyMog Member

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    Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, when you know there will be a transfer of duties, most people get ready. Take a small company, if your job is being transferred, they don't wait until it happens to do the knowledge transfer. They plan early. It happen to me when our department was transfer to India.

    2 years before the day they announced the India office would take over. They had us knowledge transfer, update procedures and during those 2 years, make us believe we would co-exist (which many of us knew that won't happen).

    Is 27 years early, well we don't know anything about running a country...so i cannot comment. But i am sure China/HK has milestones to hit before 50 year mark. Keep in mind, they wanted to implement this policy in 2003 but decided to hold off due to protests and a short time since HK was returned. But now with Riots actually causing economy issues, China can implement this and there wont' be a huge backlash like in 2003 or at least now justify it. Maybe know we can understand why China didn't get involved earlier, everybody was waiting.

    The deal has 27 years left....at this point it's well on it's way and nothing will stop it.

    Also to add a different view to both HK/Taiwan importance to China...it's about their island and position to China. China has a history of being invaded by foreigners.

    HK/Taiwan can provide Land and a base of operations to do that. China knows this and that is why they will never allow anybody to use it.

    This is also why USA considers these 2 to be strategic positions, if not they would have to base their operations further away, which consumers resources/time/etc.

    Imagine if China all of sudden, took interest in Puerto Rico and placing a base of operations there....Imagine the backlash USA would have. Which than brings me into......Cuba crisis.

    Cuba was a crisis for USA because Russia if established a Missile base, would literally be able to deploy short/medium range rockets as a threat, imagine how much money would be used to develop along gulf coast to deter that....

    I am sure some of you already knew this..if not, just sharing food for thought.
     
    #647 MightyMog, May 25, 2020
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
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  8. Roomba

    Roomba Member
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    I think your views on where the CCP is coming from in regards to what they’re doing with HK definitely makes total sense. And it’s exactly as you say, they THINK it’d be an easier process if they just get started early but I don’t agree with them on that.

    I just want the people of Hong Kong to be happy and be able maintain their identity. The few times I’ve been there have always been a real pleasure.
     
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  9. Roomba

    Roomba Member
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    Hey you don’t know that I’m not the president of some country secretly posting on Clutchfans! The Rockets are GLOBAL.

    But more seriously, I think your post was very informative, and I appreciate that you took the time.

    I’m definitely aware that my posts often skew towards naive idealism and that’s mostly because it’s far easier to say “oh, this is how it should be done” than to actually consider things from the viewpoint of the CCP. But yeah...the 两会 aren’t even over yet so I think we’ll have to wait and see what other laws are going to be unveiled. As of now all I know is that the meetings are making traffic awful.
     
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  10. MightyMog

    MightyMog Member

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    Asking questions against truth or Lie is never wrong. It allows one to explore and gain a better perspective of life.

    Last note, personally, if i was the HK people, i would embrace the opportunity given and lead the Chinese into the next century. HK has the culture to bridge the gap of the West and East. Imagine doing that and being the forefront of China. In many ways HK during the manufacturing age, is the gateway to China, why not update yourself and be the same gateway but give yourself new goals. I felt HK was poised to be the next Silicone Valley.
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    When the One Country Two Systems was put in place part of the argument was that the PRC would become more like HK after 50 years. The PRC themselves talked about that as the economy improved and modernized gradually political reform would come. Yet the opposite is happening now and pretty much from the handover the PRC hasn't lived up to the Basic Law by allowing HK free reign to choose the Chief Executive.

    Also for the gradual transition argument we're not even halfway through the 50 year period and the PRC is pressing a law that essentially trashes the Basic Law. That isn't gradual.
     
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  12. generalthade_03

    generalthade_03 Contributing Member

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    We sure have a lot of China trolls on this board. If you judge it by the amount of support for the ChiCom from these trolls then one would think it is all over for HK. Nothing is over for HK, these bastards couldn’t wait a few more years to show their stripes, their arrogance and incompetence will ultimately be their demise.
     
  13. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    This is really not different from North Korea
    except that fat dude actually likes the NBA
     
  14. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    I can't speak as someone knowledgeable about HK culture or even as a visitor, but only from what I've seen in movies, lol. And even then, I get where you're coming from. Even if the original sin was a black mark on China's past (which imo is just par for everyone bc I come from a world history view that all people are on the evil/greedy scale and it's just where you land on it that varies and there are only few outliers when it comes to those who rule)...so what? It created this really cool special zone in HK that had its own identity develop, and that's going away for better or worse.

    I think some HK people may feel that way, others probably will emigrate, like Cuban exiles and South Vietnamese. They will become a generation of people who reminisce about the old days and long for a place that no longer exists, like Confederate soldiers and sympathizers from the Civil War (and those who still revere them talking about heritage though I think it's more about ignorance - but that's a different discussion).
     
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  15. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Freedoms are harder to reverse if they stick around.

    Additionally, the biggest issue isn't what Beijing is implementing (although the text of the law is quite significant). It's how Beijing is implementing the law.

    Beijing is outright bypassing the LegCo and directly implementing a law. That's a massive change. That sets the precedent that Beijing can directly legislate in Hong Kong and there's no way to amend or reverse those changes since they bypass the LegCo. The text of the law is a huge change but the fact that Beijing is ready to directly pass laws and amend the HK Basic law means that Hong Kong's autonomy is over.
     
  16. generalthade_03

    generalthade_03 Contributing Member

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    I’m pretty sure if I ask the Cubans, the Vietnamese and the HK people who are fleeing the terror and the tyranny of these commie bastards, what they’d think about you’re comparing their plights with the Confederate soldiers and sympathizers from the Civil War, they would probably give you a knuckle sandwich. I know the Cubans would because I grew up with many of them in Miami, and the ex South Vietnamese soldiers would probably give you more than a knuckle sandwich. You mentioned the word” ignorance” in your post, that word describes you perfectly when it comes to communism and its victims.
     
  17. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Will all the big business in Hong Kong just move to Singapore?
    @freemaniam
     
  18. adoo

    adoo Member

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    most of the big businesses in HK are owned by PRC surrogates
     
  19. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    Question: what is the original deal? Would Beijing ultimately be able to bypass the LegCo (Legislative Congress?) in 27 years? If so, they're essentially jumping the gun to screw the current generation in hopes that it'll be easier to control future generations. Apologies for the ignorance and laziness, lol.
     
  20. ashleyem

    ashleyem Member

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