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2019 Hong Kong Protest

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I'm sure the PRC could easily crush HK. That's mistaking might for right. Having the ability to do something doesn't mean that you should and in this case the repercussions of a PRC crackdown in HK would both be bloody but also very harmful economically. Especially at a time of already great uncertainty.

    If the PRC wants to start a World War then that would be invading Taiwan. First off Taiwan will be many times harder to crack down than HK. It's not connected to the mainland is far larger and more important very well armed. The PRC military has made great strides but their naval and amphibious capabilities probably aren't anywhere near good enough to invade Taiwan. The US isn't going to sit by and let the PRC invade Taiwan or will many other countries such as SK, Japan, Australia and ASEAN nations. There's too much at stake economically but also given territorial concerns that they have with the PRC they aren't going to sit back and watch as the PRC takes out one of their trading partners and an important regional player.

    A crackdown in HK is possible, an invasion of Taiwan I don't think the Xi or the CCP are that reckless.

    Either move though has some very negative effects to the PRC. Given that the PRC is already suffering from COVID-19 including taking a big economic hit to an economy that prior to this was already showing signs of weakness it wouldn't be wise for them to do it. The CCP legitimacy is built off of improving the standard of living for it's people, will they risk that because of HK? I don't know..
     
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  2. ashleyem

    ashleyem Member

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    Beijing doesn't really need a bloody crackdown in Hong Kong. This national security law that they are currently legislating in Beijing allows them to arrest anyone who they accuse of secession and they are going to give them much heavier sentences than what the Hong Kong courts are giving right now.

    Protests will die down in Hong Kong.
     
  3. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    You are missing an important aspect. The CCP legitimacy is built off of improving the standard of living for it's people AND protecting the country's territorial integrity. Of course violence is not prefered but do not think for a second they will allow "one country" to be challenged without taking any strong actions nessesary, no matter it's Xinjiang, Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan or south China sea. Through the thousands of years of history those who compromised country's territorial integrity or allowed foreign nations to abuse the country were remembered as failures and traitors by all future generations (eg Qin Hui, Wang Jingwei and etc). That's the last thing any Chinese leader want.
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Except that Taiwan isn't part of the PRC and that isn't going to change anytime soon. The more Xi cracks down internally in the PRC and on HK the less likely the people of Taiwan will ever accept joining the PRC.

    The PRC claims to speak for all Chinese but that isn't the truth. In addition to Taiwan there are millions of ethnic Chinese in HK and in other parts of the World that do not follow the PRC. For that matter PRC policies are causing many to not want to identify as Chinese. At the time of the Handover the vast majority of people in HK identified themselves as "Chinese" now many don't and they consider themselves "Hong Kongers", or "Hong Kong people." Many people in Taiwan call themselves "Taiwanese" rather than "Chinese." This isn't because of "foreigners" interfering in Chinese affairs this is an organic feeling of people who have grown up under the systems of HK and Taiwan which are different than the PRC.

    The problem with the approach of the PRC is that they've entangled the issue of "One China" with it being inseparable from the CCP regime and lately with it being a regime under Xi Jinping. There could still be One China but that won't happen under force or threats.
     
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  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    It might but the fact that after months of lockdown the protests are returning shows the depth of feeling in HK.

    If I recall you live in HK. Is the impression that you're getting is that the people of HK are backing down?

    I was there for two weeks in December while there was a lull in protest I was there when they started back up again on Christmas and when there was a massive one on Nathan Road on New Year's. I didn't get the impression that people in HK were going to back down.
     
  6. ashleyem

    ashleyem Member

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    I think people are backing down, sadly. This national security law is going to have a profound impact on Hong Kong's civil liberties and people are devastated over the news.

    If anyone hasn't followed news about Hong Kong closely, here's what happened last week:

    Hong Kong's mini constitution, the Basic Law, stipulates that Mainland laws do not applied in Hong Kong, except for a few pieces of uncontroversial laws mostly relating to diplomatic matters listed on a section called the Annex III. Beijing announced on Thursday that they will insert the national security law into Annex III and they intent to pass the law this Thursday in their parliament in Beijing, bypassing Hong Kong's legislature.

    This law will allow Beijing to arrest anyone who they accuse of secession, treason and terrorism. If this law is similar to the law they've been using in the Mainland, we're taking about 25 years to life imprisonment for merely speech. And that's not even the scariest part. Some pro-Beijing political figures have already said that it will probably give Beijing the authority to set up a national security agency in Hong Kong and the law is going to be enforced by Mainland agents and suspects may have to face trial in Mainland courts.

    Who is going to risk their future anymore? I don't know.
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    There were large protests today in Hong Kong. I don't think people are backing down.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...gas-as-thousands-protest-planned-security-law
    Hong Kong Police Fire Tear Gas As Thousands Protest Planned Security Law
    May 24, 20201:45 PM ET

    Hong Kong police fired tear gas, pepper spray and water cannons as thousands of protesters rallied against proposed security measures aimed at tightening Beijing's grip on the semi-autonomous territory.

    Protesters amassed in some of Hong Kong's busiest retail districts Sunday afternoon, just days after China's parliament began working on a new anti-sedition and security laws, which have drawn criticism from pro-democracy activists. The protest was unauthorized and in defiance of social distancing rules.

    Not long after demonstrators rallied in the city's Causeway Bay and Wan Chai, riot police began turning tear gas and water cannons on the crowd. Media reports citing video of demonstrators say at one point, some protesters began throwing objects at police. Police accounts say demonstrators started fires and destroyed traffic lights.

    " A large number of community facilities were damaged, multiple traffic lights were destroyed, road rail fences removed, and a large number of drainage covers and bricks on the road were crowded," Hong Kong police said in a statement.

    At least 180 people were arrested, according to police, for unlawful and illegal assembly and misconduct in public places.

    Though smaller demonstrations have broken out in recent weeks, Sunday's was the largest since protests over a now-suspended extradition law roiled the city last year. Those protests culminated in a standoff at a major university and sit-in that led to flight cancellations at the Hong Kong International Airport.

    Sunday's rally came just days after Beijing proposed security measures that "could make any secessionist activity seen as critical and subversive illegal, effectively ending Hong Kong's limited autonomy," NPR's Emily Feng reports.

    Reuters reports that the rally was initially planned over a bill criminalizing disrespect of China's national anthem.

    On Sunday, Trump's National Security Adviser, Robert O'Brien said the proposed security measures could jeopardize Hong Kong's future as a financial hub — due in part to its special trade status with the U.S. — and lead to sanctions.

    "It looks like, with this national security law, they're going to basically take over Hong Kong," O'Brien told NBC's Meet the Press. "And if they do, Secretary [of State Mike] Pompeo will likely be unable to certify that Hong Kong maintains a high degree of autonomy and if that happens there will be sanctions that will be imposed on Hong Kong and China."

    Legislation passed last year requires the state department to annually certify that Hong Kong is "upholding the rule of law and protecting rights" and "sufficiently autonomous" for the city to maintain its special status under U.S. law.

    Hong Kong's semi-autonomy from China was established in 1997 as part of the city's handover from the United Kingdom.
     
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  8. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    US should step in and claim Hong Kong as the 51st state then we could add Puerto Rico and have a nice even number.
     
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Taiwan #1
     
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  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    The sovereign, independent nation of Taiwan will always be number one.
     
  11. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    A peaceful reunite is obviously preferred and has been the approach they have been working with but the possibility is dying out. I appreciate you expressing how the Taiwan young generations feel about one China and that's one of the key reasons China is close to giving up on a peaceful resolution. And I appreciate u expressing what u think China should or should not do but I really don't see another way this can play out.
     
  12. MightyMog

    MightyMog Member

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    How does this improve USA Citizens life?
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    KTP is a go.
     
  14. ashleyem

    ashleyem Member

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  15. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    Any gains of political freedom for Hong Kong would only last until 2047, right? From a management perspective, I wouldn't expect China to promote and protect Hong Kong's special status' over the next 3 decades and then assume full authority. You kind of expect an gradual erosion of rights. It's a tough fight when you can't realistically fight for future generations.
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    China only does this with the US out of the picture as far as the leader of the post WW2 allies in the global community. A second term for Trump all but guarantees Hong Kong to be completely overtaken by China with little regard.
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    About 10 years ago most people in HK were satisfied with the one country two systems arrangement. After the debacle with Chen Tsui Bien politicians that were friendlier towards the PRC in Taiwan were doing better. While still a long way off there certainly was a possibility of peaceful reunification of Taiwan with the PRC and maintaining calm in HK. All of that has changed with Xi Jinping turning the PRC even more towards authoritarianism. What is shredding the idea of One China isn't people in HK protesting but a complete lack of trust and frankly paranoia among the PRC leadership.

    It is a failure of vision to see any other way except through rigid control by the CCP and the Xi regime. That's what the people in HK are protesting against and that's what Taiwan will never accept.
     
  18. generalthade_03

    generalthade_03 Contributing Member

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    I’m gonna cut to the chase for all you guys. Why keeps pretending to have a civil discussion when it comes to the ChiCom bastards. They ‘ve stop pretending and now revealing their true colors. They think they’re ready to take on the whole world, but they severely underestimate the human spirit.
    #DownWithChiCom
    #StandWithHongKong
    What is ChiCom to you?
    A ‘rich’ county that has the biggest population of poor and destitute people, an aggressive neighbor nobody likes, a cheating and ruthless trading partner everybody is on guard with, a defective manufacturer that produces bad quality stuff in exchange for real money, an oppressive government that is illegitimate (as nobody in China voted for it since 1949), a cruel and barbaric leadership that shot their own students, not a few but 10,000, cut open prisoners of conscience - alive - to ‘harvest organs’ and destroy churches...

    ChiCom, a country with 4,000 years of history but only has the face of a mass murderer - Mao - on all its currency.
     
  19. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Part of it is the CCP, another part is just regional superiority complex/regional racism (true, ppl are one race but to an Asian eye, islanders are of smaller built, little darker skin, different lifestyle, different religious belief, a little more orthodox tradition etc. ) which is common among Mainlanders of each province as well.

    We Taiwanese, you Mainlanders sentiment.
    It is okay to make money off mainland tourists but please do not come into our lives unless it is marrying off your daughter....

    Historically it has gotten worse.

    Chinese have been beefing with Chinese since the monarchies... it is probably never going to change.
     
    #639 daywalker02, May 25, 2020
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  20. Roomba

    Roomba Member
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    China is violating its promise to allow Hong Kong its freedom of speech/thought after the British handover. This, to me, is unacceptable. While people on the mainland are either ok with the crazy censorship (or buy a VPN) it’s unacceptable to me that now HK is slowly being dragged in the same direction.

    I don’t believe that Hong Kong needs to be independent, but I absolutely 100% support freedom of thought and the freedom of all who live there.
     
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