1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Bill Simmons Absolutely Hates Harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by D-rock, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Simmons contradicts himself all the time dont act like he doesnt.

    How is Harden uglyball while Doncic's game is compared to Bird, his favorite player?

    This is a classic case of dog whistle, you denying it does not make less true.
     
  2. ParaSolid

    ParaSolid Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,594
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    I think so! Teams will probably adjust similarly to Luka very soon since he is killing everyone and will only get better.

    I thought this write-up from Rob Mahoney of the Ringer agreed with what we’ve seen from defenses adjusting to slow Harden down:

    https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/8/12/21363868/in-the-middle-of-a-revolution
     
  3. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Keep it going Perk!!!

     
  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
  5. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    29,274
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    All right!
     
  6. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Is Luka in blackface???

    Or just more cheap ass assists?



     
  7. harold bingo

    harold bingo Udoka Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    10,128
    You should listen to the whole podcast, or at least the whole segment. I have listened to it, it's very clear that he is calling Hardens assists "cheap". What he's saying is that there's a difference between passing to stationary players that aren't allowed to move, and making pretty passes to cutters in motion, forcing balls into tight windows, and that kind of thing. Most of Hardens assists are formulaic - he's got 4 players on the court who are instructed to stand still at the three point line, he draws an extra defender and passes to a spot on the floor. He gets a lot of assists by passing to players who are unguarded and not moving. Those are the assists that he is calling "cheap" in this context. It's clear what he means if you listen to the whole segment.
     
    Deuce, Mathloom and D-rock like this.
  8. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Durvasa either does not understand Simmon's narrative or purposefully ignoring it.
     
    Deuce and vlaurelio like this.
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,910
    Likes Received:
    15,377
    I listened to the entire segment. He said Doncic doesn't get cheap assists. At no point did he say that Harden's assists are cheap. He clearly is drawing a distinction between the two types of passes -- not disputing that -- and he talks about the benefits of passing to players on the move. But that doesn't mean that he thinks passing to stationary players is "cheap". He specifically says that Doncic makes those type of passes as well, and I believe he talks about how if Bird played in today's game he would also be looking to make passes to open 3-point shooters.

    Rockets fans are choosing to parse his words in a way to make it seem like he's unfairly attacking Harden. Why? Because there is a strong (and justifiable, in some respects) belief that "the media" is biased against us, and so the more evidence for it we can collect the better we feel.
     
  10. harold bingo

    harold bingo Udoka Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    10,128
    Well I'm glad to see you agree on the distinction he's making between the two types of assists. I think we just have to agree to disagree that he's calling the "Harden type" cheap. You're right that the rockets fanbase is probably the worst in terms of playing the victim with alleged media slights, but I don't think that's what this is. The wide reaction from non rockets fans on this issue indicates that this isn't just rockets fans being overly sensitive.
     
    Deuce and D-rock like this.
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,910
    Likes Received:
    15,377
    The wider reaction is unsurprising. Hyping up supposed controversy is entertaining and makes for a better story, and plus most people probably are just reacting to the Twitter reactions rather than what he said by actually listening to the segment.
     
  12. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    22,867
    Likes Received:
    32,132
    Alright, I do wanna say, yea Rockets fans do have a problem with that. But one thing I want to point out is that a lot of other fan bases do as well. But for us, it seems worse because we have James Harden. And he draws a lot of hatred from both fans and media. So I think it's fair to say that Rockets fan in particular are more sensitive because Harden draws a lot of people's ire, no?
     
    D-rock likes this.
  13. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Clutch is on the side of the good guys on this one. :D



    So is Craig!!!

     
    Patience likes this.
  14. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    The closer Harden gets to Larry Bird watch Simmons and Lowe start ramping up their dog whistle articles downplaying Harden's numbers.

    What is over/under on "cheap points" becoming a thing?

     
  15. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Keep piling on, dont let these guys get away with their coded narratives.

     
  16. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    21,310
    Likes Received:
    11,755
    @durvasa should defend BS from @Clutch
     
    Patience and D-rock like this.
  17. TimDuncanDonaut

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    13,144
    Likes Received:
    30,817
    Personally don't consider passing to a stationary 3pt shooter cheap, if the defender leaves their man for whatever reasons; like help defend James that's respect for his driving ability.

    From a Fan's perspective, a player causing collapsing defense then passing and someone draining a three is pretty, not ugly basketball. It's fun in 2k, it's fun when your team does it, and if opposing team run it on you, usually fans be like "oh no, i hope it doesn't go in".

    The Rondo example is an interesting mention. Rondo had three HoF with him. Some of the shots weren't that open after the assist. The degree of difficulty lied with the finisher.

    I remember in a few broadcasts and recap articles where people wonder why the Boston scoretable guy logged certain shots as an assist where it looked like a regular pass. If KG nailed a sweet turn around jumper with a defender draped on him, that's all KG.
     
  18. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,260
    Likes Received:
    12,960
    Somewhat related to assists....

    if you look at the Mavs roster and sort players by most 3PA per game, other than Doncic who shoots the most , the next eight players, who all shoot at least three a game, shoot better than 35%. Importantly, Hardaway, Curry, Porzingis, Finney Smith and Kleber, who have been there and playi all season and all shoot 4-8 a game, ALL shoot over 37%. Hardaway shoots 7 a game at 40% and Curry 5 a game at 45%!

    after Harden, the Rockets have Gordon and Covington both shooting 7.5+ threes a game both at 31.5ish%. McLemore is the only dude shooting north of 36%.

    how does that relate to assists? Well cheap or otherwise you get assists by the players you pass to hitting shots. That the Rockets others are getting so many open looks (seriously have you ever seen a team get so so so many open looks and be so poor at converting) yet not hitting clearly leads to fewer assists for Harden (and Russ).

    nobody was calling Hardens assists cheap when he led the league in assists. Hmmm...

    It still boggles the mind that DM has decided to go all in on 3 pointers and has a team that is 24th (!!!!) in the league in three point percentage. 24th!!!
     
    D-rock likes this.
  19. BigTex

    BigTex Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,118
    Likes Received:
    4,018
    There is also a stat for "wide open" and "open" 3 pointers. Rockets are # 1 in generating open 3s. But still near the bottom in open shot 3P%. While the Mavs are top 10.

    Doncic has 10 teammates shooting > 35% 3P
    Harden has 5
     
    JayZ750, D-rock and durvasa like this.
  20. Naismith

    Naismith Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    46
    YES

    SCIENCE is the only truth
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now