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Can't believe I'm admitting this, but.....

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Pole, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Not realistic, not practical.

    As for poor immigrants... 1st Gen << 2nd Gen. Just go read PEW and you see the big jump in level of income and education from Gen to Gen. 2nd Gen has higher avg education and income than all American average. I think that speak for itself on the value of immigrants in this country. And maybe it also speak to the anti-immigration view as well.

    But if you want to slow down illegal immigration, the answer isn't that hard. Seasonal / temporary work programs paid by companies that need foreign workers.
     
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  2. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    Oh, you mean a lot of voters are ****ing morons. No ****. It hasn't escaped my attention that an orange tumor was elected president.
     
  3. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    They should be sent back and treated the same as anyone breaking the law.

    I would hate to view the world like you and make everything about race or ethnicity. Sounds like a miserable existence.
     
  4. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Thanks, Obama.
     
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  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I disagree OP. The reason this law exists is to prevent “blood and soil” type of divisions. Don’t you already think we have enough of those problems already?

    Plus... we have a consumer driven market based society. We need immigration more than most countries for our system to continue to thrive. That system has had a dangerous affect in the past when the labor has been abused and even enslaved in the past which is why we should be cognizant of immigrant rights and dignity. Never forget America’s original sins.

    But what you are proposing would be detrimental to this country. It would tear us apart socially and have lasting affects to our capitalist system that incentivizes immigration. We certainly have the room for them IF we can incentivize them going to the areas of the country in the Midwest that need population growth.
     
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  6. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Anchor babies

    As usual i would like to see numbers before declaring this a problem. As stated earlier this being a constitutional amendment makes it damn near impossible to fix and therefore not worth the effort

    The issue of people coming with kids is a bigger issue. Google "detention centers"
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I will go over even farther that what has made the US the most vibrant and powerful nation is that we grant birthright citizenship. Consider that other countries grant citizenship based on ethnic and financial reasons. Those by definition are biased and bigoted reasons. Our citizenship procedure though welcomes all and as such we not only attract those who are financially well off but also those who are willing to work hard to make it to this land. We like to blame poor migrants but how motivated must someone be who is willing to walk 1,000 miles through jungles and deserts to get here. You're not a lazy person looking for a handout if you're willing to do that.

    If you look at US history the immigrants and the children of immigrants have been willing to sacrifice and build this country. The Nisei (second generation Japanese Americans) were willing to fight for this country even as their families were locked up in US run interment camps. The 442nd Regiment made up of Japanese Americans was the most decorated regiment of WWII. How willing do you think they would be willing to fight if on top of all the other indignities they dealt with they weren't automatically granted citizenship?

    All of those saying that we shouldn't have birthright citizenship are basically saying that I shouldn't be a citizen of this country. I am an Anchor Baby and I'm proud of this country. My parents weren't Americans and my family hasn't been here for generations but I will put the contributions that I and the millions of others who are citizens because of birthright up against those whose families came here generation ago. I will also say that unless you're a naturalized citizen at some point all of us got our citizenship through birthright.
     
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  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Per Wiki

    The 14th amendment was passed in 1868 in an effort to fight a court case that denied blacks citizenship.

    Also from wiki apparently approximately 7.5% of births are to unauthorized immigrants
     
  9. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    At the end of this decade, it doesn’t matter. The machines are talking over. You guys worry about hotel cleaners, crop pickers, janitors, while not seeing that your comfy jobs are at risk. Go ahead and try to compete in those low wage jobs, it’s a being great again move.

    Go yang.
     
  10. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    The 14th Amendment has the following wording:

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside"

    Since there is virtually zero chance of amending the Constitution in this day and age, the only way this changes is with a SCOTUS ruling interpreting the bolded part above to mean that people here illegally are not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". I am not personally making any judgments on this rather simply pointing out that SCOTUS can change the way this is interpreted.



     
  11. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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  12. Torn n Frayed

    Torn n Frayed Member

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    Curious; what happens when our country changes from being a mostly Protestant one to one that is more a Catholic one with the influx of those people who aren't Protestant? A honest question from a non-religious person..
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Since immigration was officially a thing in this country, adult first-generation immigrants haven't learned to speak English fluently. Their children almost always do. There have always been communities in the United States where different languages were spoken. We've grown and prospered under these conditions. It annoyed some people back then. It annoys some people now. But it hasn't really harmed our country as a whole.
     
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  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Something to consider is that a lot of immigrants in the past cams here illegally. Many Irish and Italians did not come here with proper citizenship or papers and stayed. They had children and their children were legal citizens and make up the frame work of what America is.
     
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  15. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Right now it is around 50% to 25% (give or take). It's going to be hard for Catholics to ever overtake Protestants. And...unless the supreme court becomes majority Catholic, I doubt much would ever happen.
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Sounds like a drastic solution to a modest problem. Moreover, I don't think it would even address the present problem. Sure, it's valuable to a poor immigrant to be able to give his child American citizenship. It's a ticket to ride. But, they'd still come without birthright citizenship, because you can work, it's safe, and the kids become culturally American and they can be naturalized later. What taking away the birthright would do is make the whole immigrant community more vulnerable to policy whims -- we'd have more latitude for a nativist administration to cancel green cards and deport people.

    This proposal is a bit of the sins of the father being visited upon the son. Kids born to Mexican illegals in the US grow up American as apple pie. They speak English, oftentimes lose the Spanish (unfortunately), and participate in mainstream American culture. They are American in every valid way I can think of. I can't really justify denying an American his citizenship because I wanted to deter his father from some crime.

    A more modest and realistic approach is to just change the immigration policy to recognize the immigration we're actually going to have. People are going to come because the global economic system will seek equilibrium. We have businesses that want immigrant workers. Give them visas in sufficient quantity to get the workers we want in a way that the immigrants can be legal and treated fairly. And if they have kids while they're here, great, more Americans. Americans are great. I don't understand why people want fewer of them.

    Ummm, nothing? Honestly, a bizarre question to me. Most of the country is functionally atheist anyway. What does it matter if they are atheist-Catholic, atheist-Protestant, or atheist-Muslim even?
     
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  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't say "atheist". I would say "secular" is the more accurate. Most Americans effectively live their lives as if God doesn't really play much of a role in their day to day lives. However I would bet majority of Americans would still answer "yes" to "Do you believe in a higher power?".
     
    #37 fchowd0311, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    TheFreak and FranchiseBlade like this.
  19. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    The immigration issue with this country is that we need to attract immigrants, get them documented and staying in the U.S. This applies to rich immigrants, middle-class immigrants, poor immigrants, immigrants with PhDs and immigrants who didn't graduate from high school. This applies to adults and children. We need to get people documented so they are not subject to abuse and exploitation by criminal gangs and employers (some of whom are immigrants themselves) and live in fear of the government.

    Anchor babies? Have you noticed that we don't have enough babies? Have you noticed what happens to the finances of cities as population decline in places like Upsate NY and the Midwest?

    Chain migrations? Wonderful! It's great that new arrivals have families in the U.S. to show them the way of life.

    Racists talk about white people getting replaced. Well, somebody has to replace you people.
     
  20. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Question: Remove this item . . . ..1. What would be the criteria for citizenship?

    Rocket River
     

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