If your principles lead you to aid in the re-election of Donald Trump, then yeah, your principles suck.
I already addressed this false choice. So the surprise of no one we are going to have to agree to disagree. FWIW I don't put much weight in the scolding of neo liberals responsible for delivering us Donald Trump in the first place.
I say this as someone who will vote blue no matter what, but a lot of people here need to wake the **** up. It’s not leftists’ fault the Democratic Party has become so unpalatable to the working class, and it’s not leftists’ fault that Trump will probably be re-elected. 43% of Americans did not vote in the last election. Watch the DNC nominate Biden, Harris or any of the other weak candidates and watch Trump get reelected with even less voter turnout. The corporate media really loves to push this narrative of "bitter idealogues refusing to vote blue no matter who" when in reality it's the Democrats' refusal to consider any candidate who challenges the status quo that will cost them another election.
The self-glorifying persecution complex of the SpurnieBro is worse than the resulting lost vote PREEN FOR MY VOTE. PREEN STRENUOUSLY! No. Do whatever man. Feel free to tell us. And, you know, people will say whatever. That's internets. Obviously, the 40% of the country signing onto a package of a corrupt, autocratic racist regime are the real problem as opposed to your particularized faction and its neo liberal oppressors.
Remember that a statistically significant number of those 43% of people who didn't vote didn't vote because of active measures to suppress and discourage their vote by Republicans, Cambridge Analytica, and their Russian allies. This isn't an allegation, this is a fact. It used to be that civic indifference was a useful crutch to talk about. Now civic indifference has been weaponized, not only by itself, but as an excuse from actors that are far more sinister and that are active enemies of representative democracy as it has been understood for thast 50 years. This, sadly, includes the vast bulk of today's Republicans
Are you aware of Harvard Professor Robert Epstein PhD.? https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Epstein Testimony.pdf
Character assassination? Really NewRoxFan? I notice in your comments there is no mention he is a self avowed left of center voter that cast his last presidential vote for Hillary Clinton nor for that matter any positive comments about him whatsoever. I wonder why that might be? This aside, I would notice nothing stated detracted in the slightest from the findings of his multiple controlled experiments and his published findings in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences...or that those findings have been duplicated by a 3rd party. Duly noted.
Character assassination? Snowflake much? I posted the guy's history. Seems he had past grievances with Google. Also seems he had an unusual area of study and his web site was a source for malware. Was any of that untrue?
Absolutely. When you post about a person rather than his findings and its all negative...that's character assassination. Juvenile much? You posted a negative anecdote. Unless you feel what you posted represents everything about him which would be his actual history. So what? Apparently that would make him no different than the rest of us. So what? I guess opinions really are like a..holes. So what? I can show you dozens if not thousands of examples of people or sites that have had malware. It was and is irrelevant. The studies you have yet to address remain.
Id Trump doesn't win by electoral votes; he's sure as **** is not gonna accept an election where he loses. And guess what? The military leans Trump. The cops lean Trump. Most gun owners are Republican. Like Mao said, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Best case scenario? Trump.loses accepts defeat and makes a **** ton of money owning a news network. Worst case? He loses. Tells his supporters its rigged. And a small percent of supporters (say one thousand people) shoot up **** because theyre pissed. **** like that happens everyday around the world. And its coming here
The tired narcissism of "i predicted this, i the lone voice in the Wilderness, therefore the rest of you shall suffer your ignorance despite your presumption of superiority" is so blah. I imagine even internet research agency types find it sad despite the fact they're straight evil. It's good to be the tragic hero of your own story i guess. But you know what's better? The not as tragic story.
You've spoken many times about false choices. I would argue that your view that it is either the candidate that you most support or nothing is the false choice. You are setting up an absolutist dichotomy that is is the type of thinking that allows Trump to thrive. Just because you end up voting for someone you don't agree 100% on in the general election doesn't mean you give up on your progressive principles or that you can't continue moving the country towards a more progressive wing. I won't deny that I've been very hard on Sanders and the progressive wing. I won't apologize for that and will continue to be critical of them. What I will give Sanders and his supporters a lot of credit is that they have done a lot to organize and strengthen their position within the Democratic party. I recognize that we have many issues that we don't agree on and that we need to have an honest debate on those issues. I was telling a Trump supporter this earlier today. As long as Trump is president we can't even get to having the debate because Trump has no principles other than what benefits himself and his family. By debate I'm not talking about a Presidential primary stage but an actual debate that might lead to real change. None of that can happen as long as we have a con man grifter in office who has no qualms about dividing and even lying to his own supporters as long as it can keep him in power. I quoted this to my Trump supporting friend, "On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants." That is Alexander Hamilton in Federalist Paper #1. Hamilton wasn't remotely a progressive in the modern sense but firmness and efficiency of government is absolutely necessary for a progressive agenda. A demagogue is one who uses the language of populism for his own enrichment. This is exactly the case with Trump. Once working class Americans made up the core of the Progressive movement. They now make up the core of Trumpism. There is very little hope that we will get close to any of the issues you argue for as long as Trump remains in office. If he can cement his legacy with supermajority of USSC Justices that will long outlive his term in office.
If it weren't for actual human beings, and this was just some sort or philosophical exercise....I'd be all with you. But it's not. These decisions, and the lack thereof, hurt people. And if you choose to do that, and are alright with it, then good on you and your principles.
I agree with this very much. It’s the punditry narratives about electability that the party ends up falling for. The media does such a terrible job in covering this like sports center or a Bravo after hours talk show instead of covering the issues and being as informative as possible. The Dems get inside their own heads and have a self defeating strategy of trying too hard not to lose instead of allowing themselves and their candidates to fight for what they truly are passionate about and in turn the voters need to stop giving a F what the CNN or MSNBC pundits say they should care about in a candidate. I do have some hope that this is happening a bit though with the rise of Warren in the poles especially in Iowa. She’s the perfect example of this whole narrative of electability. The person in the race that the media tells us is the most unelectable is actually the most genuine imo. I have to say though... it’s tough as someone myself that sees poles like the one the other day that has Biden poling 10 points ahead of Trump in Ohio when every other candidate is basically tied with Trump and maybe think to myself that maybe we shouldn’t over think this too much and just accept what is smack dab in front of us. That’s poling you really can’t ignore as much as I agree with you.
One of the things I've seen talking to Trump supporters is that while yes there are certain economic messages from the Left that might appeal to them and Trump himself has capitalized on those. That said the primary complaint regarding the Democratic party from Trump supporters that I hear isn't that the party is too centrist but that it is extremely Leftist. In their mind this is a Socialist party waging culture war on their way of life. While Sanders and Warren may have some economic messages that might appeal to Trump supporters things like abortion, transgender rights, multi-culturalism, and firearms become an ideological firewall that many won't get past. I will state again that Clinton didn't lose on the issues. In fact most of her issues were completely lost and the election became about personality. In that regard Clinton was already hampered by 25 years of attacks creating a caricature of her, which I will note many on the left also bought into, in turn she campaigned on Trump's character. That combined with being blindsided by Comey had far far more to do than ideological positioning.
[Premium Post] I think what really frustrates the liberals is how effective Trump has been while in office. It is undeniable that Americans' quality of life and standards of living have improved during the last 2+ years. Isn't that what it's all about?? More jobs, more income, safer as a nation, stronger military, less taxes, more freedom, less regulation, criminal justice reform, the list goes on and on! This is what independent voters like! What they don't like is hearing played out, debunked conspiracy theories about Russian collusion. It's really sad that all of this success brings frustration and anger to the liberals. For them it's all about power, and not about lifting the quality of life of Americans. Very selfish of them. GOOD DAY
Wow... are you related to the physcology professor to be so defensive about his past? Again, here's what I posted (this time, not using the quote function): "In 2012, Epstein publicly disputed with Google Search over a security warning placed on links to his website.[10] His website, which features mental health screening tests, was blocked for serving malware that could infect visitors to the site. Epstein emailed "Larry Page, Google's chief executive; David Drummond, Google's legal counsel; Epstein's congressman; and journalists from The New York Times, The Washington Post, Wired, and Newsweek."[10] In it, Epstein threatened legal action if the warning concerning his website was not removed, and denied that any problems with his website existed.[10] Several weeks later, Epstein admitted his website had been hacked, but criticized Google for tarnishing his name and not helping him find the infection.[11] Epstein has since continued to criticize Google, writing in TIME magazine that Google had "a fundamentally deceptive business model".[12][13] Epstein also has said that Google could rig the 2016 US presidential election and that search engine manipulation was "a serious threat to the democratic system of government".[14] According to Epstein, "Perhaps the most effective way to wield political influence in today's high-tech world is to donate money to a candidate and then to use technology to make sure he or she wins. The technology guarantees the win, and the donation guarantees allegiance, which Google has certainly tapped in recent years with the Obama administration."[14]" Now, to me it seems relevant that he decided to do a study on Google's business model after having a dispute with the company about his web site. And if me posting that history constitutes "character assassination... LOL, well, I would hate to see what you call what I post about trump...
