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[OFFICIAL] Elizabeth Warren for President thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    No offense, but you're doing the Internet thing: pick the weakest perceived point and dismiss everything.

    The crux of your argument seems to be: I've had to pay this so you young folks should to. That just strikes people as more bitter than logical. But maybe I'm missing something.

    Anyway: I am very worried about loan forgiveness. Universities are already massively bloated and inefficient. My worry is that a loan forgiveness program exerts no constructive pressure on the cost of higher ed.

    On the plus side, it would be a much greater real stimulus to the economy than those recent "tax cuts" (mine went way up, speaking of bitter), that just further concentrated wealth and narrowed control of capital overall.
     
    Nook, biff17 and fchowd0311 like this.
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I think you made a salient point that I completely forgot about.

    Our willingness to give handouts to the ultra wealthy and not having that percieved as "unfair" yet allowing people to not have 80 grand in debt for the audacity to become more product members of society and then seeing it as unfair treatment to alleviate their struggles seems like MSM brainwashing working its wonders.

    And you right. Erasing current student loan debt isn't going to solve the long term problem of unaffordable higher education. It's a temporary measure to alleviate a massive problem for many Americans which also depresses the economy.
     
    #482 fchowd0311, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    B-Bob likes this.
  3. HTM

    HTM Member

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    To be fair to me, you can go back and look at the posts I've made, the posts that have quoted me and my responses and you will see I haven't "picked out the weakest argument and ignored the rest" - In addition, I won't necessarily know if someone goes back and edits there post and adds stuff.

    My argument is about equity and fairness. Many people over the last 20 years or so, since college costs have really gotten astronomical, have been fiscally responsible, diligent and hard working and have paid back their loans, in doing this, they haven't been able to put that money towards retirement, savings, buying a house, enjoying a more fiscally liberal lifestyle... etc... etc... Their financial diligence and sacrifice will be totally eschewed. You were financially responsible and paid your loans? You're an idiot. They might as well have blown that money on trips to Cabo, BMW's and strippers. The government is simply going to forgive it. Is that fair? No. It's not fair. Is it equitable? No. It's not equitable.

    A proposal that would cancel current debts and reimburse folks who did pay their debts would at least have some equity and fairness about it. I haven't seen that floated though.
     
  4. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    B-Bob likes this.
  5. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    The cynic in me say that if you forgive student loans, you should also retroactively cut a big check to everybody that paid for their education for the last 30 years. That's the most "fair" solution if you are going to pony up massive amounts of money.
     
    Astrodome likes this.
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Sure, if you live in a universe that didn't have exponentially rising educational costs plus flat or declining real wages for virtually the entirety of the 30 year period, that would be "fair" - but that's not the universe we live in, which is why it's an issue at all
     
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  7. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Educational costs have been pretty astronomical for awhile now. It didn't start yesterday.
     
  8. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I'm sort of with @HTM

    I don't think it's "fair" to everyone who has busted their butts and made life choices based on student debt to have everyone get a free ride. I also don't think it's good for education long term.

    I think I'm more for loan mitigation than loan forgiveness. I do like the civil service programs reducing debt. I do not support full loan forgiveness though.
     
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  9. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I think everyone who did that should be happy that others don't have to suffer the same burden that they did. They should be happy for the people who will be able to put the money back into the economy and benefit all of us.
     
  10. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Hell yeah and I should be forgiven for the debt on my house and vehicles, I will put the money back into the economy that will benefit all of us. Then I will go buy more **** that I won’t pay off, win win for the country!
     
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  11. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Except that you are one person and that won't make a difference. I don't think your vehicles and housing loans were the results of unfair lending practices that were required in order for you to better yourself, and get a job where you also bettered our community.
     
  12. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    In his day houses cost $500 and a car went for a bag of seed
     
  13. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    No not just me, everyone should take advantage. A nice home and vehicle for everybody would better themselves and the community because there would be no more slums. This is going to be wonderful.
     
  14. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Dumbartonbass has at least two cents to throw in.
     
  15. HTM

    HTM Member

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    A vehicle is a necessary tool to participate in the modern American economy for most people and everyone needs a place to live.
     
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  16. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    I took out a loan to make that post
     
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  17. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Why shouldn't Joe Taxpayer pay for the current debts and reimburse everyone who paid their debts back under the onerous student loan system? That way those people who were fiscally responsible won't just get the shaft, they will be able to put that money back into the economy!
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    When rich people get tax cuts and poor people don't, do you think its good policy, and are you happy for them that they will save money and have less of a burden in life and can spend more on the economy? If a black person is put in jail for a crime while a white person gets a lesser sentence, should the black person just be happy that the white person doesn't suffer the same burden as they did? It just doesn't work this way.

    The feeling of fairness in our laws and our policies are a fundamental part of society. It would be different if working your way through college instead of taking loans was considered a poor decision - but it wasn't. So to arbitrarily and retroactively reward one at the expense of the other is crazy. Changing the rules of the game after the fact goes against the basic notion of equal opportunity and fairness.
     
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  19. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    What goes for thought on the right. So sad, but Mick Frey does make the argument for better funding for education.
     
  20. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    Degrees are not required to better yourself. Lets be honest.
     
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