MVP Shouldn’t Even be a Discussion

ESPN's The Jump Rachel Nichols is out here on the show campaigning against Harden AGAIN. This woman is a problem..

 

odds on 5dimes:

Thu 5/30 25601 G.Antetokounmpo wins regular season MVP -200
Thu 5/30 25603 James Harden wins regular season MVP +175
Thu 5/30 25605 P.George wins regular season MVP +6300

 

delete

 

I always remember how she publicly scolded Harden for having a sex life at the expense of basketball. That's what she's really concerned about.
(Imagine scolding a WNBA player for her sex life.)

 

Tomorrow night will matter. We need them talking about Harden on Wednesday. The Bucks know it too and will no doubt double. This game is nuclear in so many ways.

 

Pippen and Kidd went Giannis. Windhorst acted like he didn’t know, but from listening to the ESPN podcast most the year I would be shocked if he picked Harden.

 

Guess it looks like it’s between Giannis and Lebron for “Best Player” this season

 

Apologies in advance to anybody who really thinks the media is going to give it to Harden over a media darling like Giannis. Y’all saw how this went with Curry and Westbrook already. If there is even a remotely close tie-breaker, it’s going the other way.

 

Reminds me of when Barkley won the MVP in 92-93 over Dream. Suns had the better record, but Dream was destroying everyone, and dusted the Chicago Bulls like they were toys.

 

If past trends continue, I expect the officiating to be absolutely horrific. The game is in Milwaukee, and I expect several of the NBA's most-easily-swayed-by-the-home-crowd officials to be assigned to the game. I further expect Giannis to just about get away with murder in the paint, and for Capela to be shoved around again.

Afterwards, every yammering talking head will keep on with how this head to head matchup just proves Giannis should be the MVP, Harden's just a guy concerned about his stats, etc...

I hope James crams it down their throats.

 

Yeah, after watching Scottie, Kidd, and Max talk about MVP - it's wrong that Giannis somehow gets praise when Harden blows up the league with insane performances. The producers are like... look, Harden just got 61, go on the show and make a case for Giannis' MVP.

I sorta wish Tmac was there to defend Harden cuz I think he would. Scottie was begging someone to question what is the "right way" to play. It doesn't surprise me that Windhorst is too lazy to make his own pick. Nichols does a spectacular job of outlining the white elephant in the room that encompass all the reasons why Harden's case is so far and beyond Giannis'. Not one of them is willing to say... who will you remember this season? At least when Harden won it last year, he not only led the team to the best record in the league, but he had marquee games for fans to remember.

If anything, tomorrow might be Giannis' ONLY marquee game of the season.

 

I haven't listened, not sure I will, but the real white elephant in the room is to ask the question, "If Lebron was doing what Harden is doing, and Laker's had the same record/seed, would you vote for Lebron. Don't lie; you know you would."

And then they'll say, "Yeah, of course, but Lebron plays defense. And that would mean he transformed the Lakers." sigh. ignoring the Rockets injuries and Harden's defense that is wildly better than any year Curry's ever had,,,not close.

The juicy thing to come from that question is I'd answer by first saying, "So, this question alone means we all agree Lebron has failed, and is nowhere close to Harden's level, anymore."

 

If Harden wants the MVP then beast tomorrow. Jordan would. Dream would. He’s got a late season game against the main competitor.

 

Blow out the Raindeer tommorow and the MVP is yours Harden. But, based on how much the media hates you, better luck on the next life Harden, you are not going to win another MVP.

 

Please close thread @Clutch

/Discussion

 

Actually, he should try to win the game. The Bucks will gameplan to stop Harden. The Rockets will not do the same for Giannis because he doesn’t impact the game like that.

There won’t be any traps at half court or triple teams on Giannis so he should be able to get his numbers while Harden’s teammates will need to make the easy shots that his gravity gives them.

 

Brian Windhorst, Nick Friedell & Royce Young

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=26359101

BW: Today I had a robust conversation with Jason Kidd & Scottie Pippen, both on The Jump & off The Jump behind the scenes about where the MVP race is going. I hope I'm not outing anybody but someone reached out to do a straw poll. Tomorrow the Bucks are hosting the Rockets. I've done these over the years. Guys, I could not give an answer. I was pro-Harden at the all-star break. I'm no longer there, despite he's been great the last week or so. Nick, if you were asked, would you have an answer?

NF: I lean Harden right now. I would give him my vote which I do not have this year.

BW: How do you know? Votes haven't gone out yet.

Nick: So maybe I do then? Giannis will win one. It might happen this year. It's a close race. Harden kept that team alive for too long a stretch, the numbers he's put up & continues to put up are incredible. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt knowing what he already accomplished last year & knowing that without him on that team, as great as Giannis has been & will continue to be, Harden is a cut above at the moment.

BW: Royce, if you had to make a vote, it would be?

RY: I think I would vote Giannis. It's like you're 51-49, one way or the other.

BW: It's not fair to knock the other guy.

RY: Everyone assumes you hate the other guy. What it is, it's a contextual conversation about MVP. It's very contrasting. Harden has more of the narrative. Like Nick said, with what the Rockets went through, the immense scoring & what we visualize a MVP to be which is putting the team on your back. Harden has done that. Giannis has been doing that. What separates it for me is about double-digit wins this year. Bucks are so far & beyond every other team in the NBA. Similar to Westbrook/Harden MVP debate, do you want the dominant team rolling over everyone, best net rating, Giannis sitting 4th quarters, doesn't need these MVP Heisman moments or the guy putting the team on his back?

BW: Here's the stat from Haberstroh: number of wins by 10+ points. Bucks have 42. 2nd place is tied(29). It's the Jazz/Warriors. Toronto has 28. You can't have a game-changing threes or plays if you're already out of the game.

NF: I understand the statistics. The numbers can go whatever direction you want them to. Harden's importance to that team in those stretches was just a bit more important than Giannis has been. Giannis is incredibly important. He's unbelievable but if you took Harden off that Rockets team, that Rockets team wouldn't be close to where it is. If you took Giannis off the Bucks, while certainly not close to the team they'd be, with Budenholzer & the pieces they do have, they'd be in a better spot than the Rockets.

BW: So you're flipping the argument/point on it's head. The fact these games are close is one example of why he's valuable. This is a problem. You can go down all these avenues & end up in the same cul-de-sacs with these two guys.

RY: This feels like the Heisman debate. You got 3 guys. Paul George is on the fringe. He's the Dwayne Haskins. Having a great year but he won't win. Then you got Kyler Murray(James Harden), has to score every time he has the ball and then the most complete player sitting out 4th quarters which is Tu'a(Giannis).

BW: As long as you extend the analogy. Kyler Murray(aka James Harden) won it. Both Kidd & Scottie lean Giannis. Kidd practically raised Giannis as a player. If he didn't vote for him, that would have been surprising.

NF: Bias there is pretty damn strong.

BW: His point is in the team setting. You need to win a team setting. This goes back to what Andrew & I discovered at all-star weekend. The players don't seem to, the players themselves--there is a players award, based on my sampling, Giannis is in the lead for players award. The players seem to value what Giannis does. They seem to think there's sorcery going on with Harden. Should he be penalized for that? Even if we accept that's true -- he plays an unattractive style, that doesn't mean his mastery is any less impressive. I don't know how I'll break the tie.

NF: Since we all agree narrative is a huge part of this award, if Harden hadn't won MVP last year, do we perceive anything of what's going on right now any differently?

RY: 100%. Me personally, I feel that way. It's not fair. It shouldn't matter at all. "It feels like it's Harden turn." That's the way we would perceive it. He's been close, he's been close, this year it's too much to deny it. Now I feel people lean that way about Giannis. Harden is last year's MVP, last year's news. Now it's Giannis' turn. That's absolutely gonna come into play.

BW: I agree but shouldn't we in the media not worry about turns?

RY: Yes, 100%. We shouldn't care about narrative but we can't help it. We're human & like story lines and that stuff matters.

NF: LeBron is listening right now, screaming about the Derrick Rose year and probably several other years.

BW: You want to get LeBron heated, bring up the 2011 MVP vote.

NF: It's what we're speaking about. Derrick led a Bulls team who didn't have much success and LeBron had an incredible year but wasn't enough because that narrative was so strong.

BW: Most difficult MVP vote I think I had was 2004 or 2005. Steve Nash over Shaq, which is still a controversial vote. It was the first MVP Steve Nash won. He repeated the next year. I went with Nash. I had never seen the game played the way Nash & the Suns were playing that year. I was blown away by the way he changed the game. Shaq's numbers were awesome. At the time, Dan LeBatard believed race played a role in the vote. I did not agree then, don't now. The way the game has changed & fact he won the next year, my vote is vindicated. Of course I'm biased. I was way younger then. I'd like to think I've learned a little about the game. Scottie Pippen has given some impassioned explanation about why he thinks Giannis should win. Not against Harden but because doing it in the team concept. I don't know where I'll come down on it.

 

Windhorst playing the role of Zach Lowe in 2017.

"I like totally have no idea, no legit clue who I'm voting for but maybe Kawhi is the MVP? Just throwing it out there! Again, no idea who I'm voting for! I'm stumped!"

Hint: Lowe ended up voting for Kawhi.

It's OK Windhorst. Just say you're voting Giannis. Giannis is a fine MVP candidate.

"Like I just have no idea how I'm gonna vote. I couldn't answer. I don't know how I'll break the tie. I legit have no idea where I'll come down on it."