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Astros Trade option(s)

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by ZeroPoint, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    It is more the main argument against Alonso is Beltran...which should apply to Davis as they are both bat-only guys. If Astros want to improve their WS odds at something besides SP, Aoki and Beltran are the weakest links. Depending on who gets traded at deadline, Aoki may already have an internal replacement. If Astros are lucky enough to make WS, but face Dodgers...it is going to be a tough series and Astros will need as many guys that can hit as they can get.

    I prefer Alonso, but I'd not be against Davis if it were a reasonable deal and at DH.
     
  2. Buck Turgidson

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    Given everything Hinch and the players have said about Beltran, I can pretty much guarantee you that he's not getting replaced, for better or worse.
     
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  3. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I must be missing these. When prompted about veteran leadership, I've heard Beltran a lot from players, but not to level that I think irreplaceable. I've heard Beltran more frequently from Hinch than players. Granted, I don't catch many interviews with Altuve and Correa who I see talking more with Beltran.
     
  4. sealclubber1016

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    The fact that they do always seem to be around him is pretty telling. Unless he becomes a significant liability, I don't forsee him going anywhere.

    As for Gray, Quintana and Cole, I'm pretty much over giving up much to get them. Not to say I wouldn't make a deal for them, but at this point I don't feel much better about them than I do Fiers, Morton, McHugh or Peacock. They aren't getting close to ace, or even front end results. Quintana and Cole have both had xFIP's and SIERA over 4 for the last 2 years. Sonny Gray is the closest, he has solid peripherals this year, and an excuse for last year's struggles, but I don't feel great about him either. We've still got a month to see if this improved groundballing Fiers sticks, if it does, he's pretty much on the level Quintana and Cole are right now, and maybe Gray as well.

    It's not that I feel our need for another front end guy is any less than I have all year, I just don't think a guy of that caliber is available. At this point I would rather see Morton and Peacock tagged up, Fiers or McHugh in game 4 and us adding the best reliever available and trying to have an overpowering pen.
     
  5. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    If they get an Oakland pitcher, I'd rather them get Manaea.
     
  6. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Before this year, Alonso had an OPS of .683, .742, .682, .710 the previous 4 years. Beltran has been bad this year, but his .721 is better than 3 of those 4 years.

    I would not necessarily be against adding a bat, but it would have to be one that I had very little doubt about. If Detroit sells JD Mart and we wanted to bring him back, I'm down with that. Wouldn't want to shake up the chemistry for someone who has had a couple of great months in his career
     
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  7. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    I've seen this sentiment; it seems to be gaining traction - roll with what you've got.... here's my issue: 50% of those guys are injured (as is Keuchel). I know they're rehabbing and due back real soon - and at least with McHugh, there's no history of being perpetually hurt. But I think the Astros would be absolute fools to assume health among Keuchel, McCullers, McHugh and Morton. They have to - HAVE TO, imo - buy insurance of the probability that at least 1, maybe more of those guys will not be available for either stretch run innings and/or the postseason.
     
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  8. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Pretty sure we all would, but he is 25 years old, making half a million this year, team control next year and 3 more arb years after that. They would have to be blown away to move him
     
  9. eric.81

    eric.81 Contributing Member

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    I haven't agreed with post so much in a long time. Peacock and Fiers have been awesome, no question. Morton has really, really good stuff... better than we all thought. When we're healthy, we don't need anyone else. But we cannot count on health. A TOR arm is preferable, but considering the current state of our pitchers' health, we just need someone to eat some innings and save that bully.
     
  10. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  11. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Agree with this to an extent. Problem is if we don't have Keuchel and/or McCullers in the playoffs, our chances of winning the whole thing go down tremendously anyway, probably enough that it doesn't make sense to move many assets for more mid rotation types.

    Assuming those two are ready to go though, I agree we need insurance on Morton and the rest of the guys. Would love to see Toronto struggle the next few weeks and be sellers. If we can't make a move for a true front of the rotation type, guys like Estrada and Happ would make good mid rotation depth type of guys, and we have a bit of a history of making deals with Toronto
     
  12. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Yep. That's why I'd still be OK with Quintana, despite his performance regression: 1) I think a change of scenery and the end of all the trade speculation would help; b) he's an innings-eater and, man.... even at his current performance, that would be vital every fifth day - especially given that our offense keeps us in so many games.
     
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  13. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Astros are 13-9 since Keuchel last pitched - that's a 96-win pace. If both are down... yeah, it's bleak. But Quintana or Gray + Fiers and McHugh (Morton) >>>>> Fiers and McHugh (Morton).
     
  14. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Lol, uh....no

    I mean Machado is a great player, but he is having a down year himself

    Machado making 11.5 million and a free agent in 2019, has a .744 OPS this year
    Bregman making 1/2 a million and a free agnet in 2023, has a .737 OPS this year

    I know Machado has much more upside than that, but....so does Bregman...Yes, Machado has done it already in the big leagues the last two years, but this year they have been the same player

    And we are supposed to add Martes, Whitley and Fisher in there

    LOL on that

    I don't think we should move Bregman, Martes, Whitley and Fisher for any player, but if we did put a package like that together it would ONLY be for a front line starting pitcher, and his name better be Kershaw, Bumgarner, Sale, Kluber...none of which are available
     
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  15. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Yea I agree we shoudl be going after someone, and yes what we have is good enough to win at a really good pace even without our aces

    I'm just saying that if we are lining up in a playoff series and it doesn't say

    Game 1: Dallas Keuchel
    Game 2: Lance McCullers

    Our chances are significantly less likely we could win the whole thing. Getting insurance for one of those guys being out needs to be a true front line starter. Don't get me wrong, i'm all in for adding a good starter, and my preference would be to trade away more and get a better one back
     
  16. sealclubber1016

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    I don't disagree, but how much are we willing to pay for "insurance"

    Are you willing to give up 3 of our top 10 prospects for a guy that may not even be one of our 4 best options in the playoffs? I don't have a problem with going after them, but at this point their cost to need/value ratio is not very good. Just looking at their results and peripherals over the last 2 years, can you say with confidence that either of those 3 make us all that much better?

    The teams want a front line package, and they aren't worth a front line package, not even close in my book. If the cost has or will come down to something reasonable then absolutely, but I don't want to make a huge investment a guy that we "may" need and "could" help us.
     
  17. sealclubber1016

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    I understand some of you, not pointing fingers and any particular person, feel prospects are fairly meaningless when you have a chance to win a chip.

    I don't feel that way. If there was a true ace available, then go for broke, but i don't feel we should overpay for players with our prospects just because they may help us a little. Just because we are contending in 2017 doesn't mean 2020 should be entirely ignored. Or for that matter, maybe there's a big gun available this off season, and we don't have the juice to add him because we traded too much for a pitcher that didn't even make a postseason start.
     
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  18. UTAllTheWay

    UTAllTheWay Member

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    I absolutely agree with this if we're talking about getting a rental that would become a free agent after this season, or even a guy that is just under contract next year too.

    But if we are looking at getting a guy who is under team control for three more years, then I don't mind giving up a little more than usual for it.

    For instance, giving up all of that for Manny Machado is a terrible idea considering he would become a free agent after next season. Giving it up for Chris Archer, though, would make sense because we can control him all the way to 2021.
     
  19. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member

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    Forget the fit for a minute. What leads you to think that Alonso will be a better offensive player going forward than Davis?

    Before this season he had never played a full year where his slugging percentage was over .400. This year he is slugging .588... I would call that the outlier.

    Davis has been a much much better hitter throughout his career. So if we are talking about playing either at DH then I don't see how Alonso would be the better option.
     
  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This is the best shot the Astros have even had at winning a World Series, better than even the year the Astros got Randy Johnson. The Astros really need to make a move for a starter. They don't need to empty their minor leagues of prospects, but there is no reason they cannot be deeply involved in Sonny Gray and others. There is no way to know who will get injured, or suddenly not be effective. Anyone that is counting on Fiers, Peacock or Morton is playing with fire.
     
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