I don't doubt that numerous things would be "news to you". Before the Muslim conquests of the 600's the region was mostly populated with Hellenistic peoples and under the rule of the Byzantines, the population greatly changed after conquest. As to there being "ancestors of Palestinians" there before that, if you mean in the loosest sense, that there were Semitic people there, then sure, but that's WAY too loose of a definition for me. The people displaced in the Muslim conquests weren't any more "indigenous" than the Palestinians. That land has changed hands and the ethnic population has changed numerous times just in recorded history, probably numerous times before that as well.
There's a lot wrong here and I feel its beneath me to continue to arguing with you so I'll just point out one thing and leave you with some advice: You are under the understanding that Jesus was 'Hellenistic' and the Greeks were not conquerors but the indigenous population. Ok, go home kid, you know nothing of the region and you're making a fool of yourself.
LOL again with the Jesus BS? Again, what relevance does Jesus have to this conversation? Does the presence of Semitic people 2000 years ago somehow relate to demographics 1400 years ago?
Young Israelis showing it isn't the Israel of the old Hollywood movies anymore. These teens will soon be soldiers trying to control the Palestinians. It is a shame that the US has to sell the the weapons they don't need to slaughter the Gazans. It hurts the US standing in the world. <iframe width="600" height="300" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4u4clhHrvko" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Fighting resumes after peace talks collapse. Hamas launches rockets at Southern Israel and also at an offshore gas platform. Israel resumes bombing of Gaza including the house of the Hamas military leader. http://news.msn.com/world/gaza-war-rages-on-hamas-says-israel-tried-to-kill-its-military-chief
Good I hope Muhammad Deif is dead. Can go ahead and kill Haniyeh and Mashaal too while they're at it. Hamas leadership needs to go, for the betterment of the Palestinian people.
I don't know if you heard but rockets were fired out of Gaza at Southern Israel before the airstrikes started.
Going "all in" for the Palestinians, aren't you, glynch. So should Israel just sit there while missiles are being fired into their country? Apparently. You make it sound like the government of Israel, and by association, the people of that country, view Gaza as a large holding pen filled with cattle, good for nothing except being slaughtered wholesale. You ruin whatever argument you might have, glynch, in my humble opinion, by going to such an extreme that it is difficult for any reasonable person to take you seriously.
You are all in with John McCain, Netanyahu etc. or at best Obama, support for sending Israel arms and subsidies with an occasional nod to being evenhanded. At least with Obama we can see that other factors make him support Israeli brutality. You formed your opinions about the situation many years ago and until you seek out more accurate info there is no reaching you as you have fallen for Zionist propaganda. Frankly the government of Israel and approximately 83% of Israelis do see Gaza as a large holding pen filled with folks who are a problem in having a Jewish state. They want the land and the gas fields offshore, but they view Gazans as surplus people who they wish would just disappear. A hundred and fifty years ago these Israelis would have just slaughtered the folks in Gaza, but they realize that would be too much for you and most Americans in this day and age. Interestingly Zionism, a colonial settler project is losing support among American Jews as it is against the Jewish tradition which predates Zionist Israel by thousands of years. Their place is being taken by Christian fundamentalists and secular rightists.
150 years ago, the Ottomans would be wondering who these Israelis are that you speak of...or for that matter, Palestinians.
True but this is not relevant as to whether Jews from other countries had the right to go and colonialize the local population who were living there whether "Ottoman" "Palestinian" or whatever they went by For that matter the Zionists did not have a right to displace the local population by violence whether in Kenya.Patagonia and the Other places they considered moving to
They had the power to do it, they had the international support to do it, they did it. How are you arguing they didn't have the "right" to do it? What gives someone the "right" to do anything if not the power and support to do something?
They had the power to do so. I was talking in terms of "rights" and morality. Understandably supporters of Israel hate international law. I can understand defenders of Israel as a "Jewish" state can be upset that in the 21rst Century there is a strong trend away from conquering territory and subjugating the local population, while a couple of hundred years ago it was considered ok,
There's a response to this. Here's the short version: Hamas spokesperson al-Aruri simply verifies what we already know, that the Qawasmeh clan of Hebron did the kidnapping and murders. The Qawasmehs are affiliated with Hamas, for those that don't know, but don't exactly take direct orders from them (nor do the rocketeers who normally break hudnas to provoke Israeli air strikes). These actors don't take direct orders from Hamas any more than say the Ultras Sur do from Carlo Ancelotti. Not a perfect analogy, but you get my drift. All of this has been misunderstood by western media because al-Aruri was trying to address the delusional urban myth/conspiracy theory that the kidnapping was a false flag operation done by Israel to justify an attack on Gaza. al-Aruri wants us to know it was a "Palestinian act" but his statement doesn't at all pin responsibility on Hamas leadership itself. It's unlikely that Hamas leadership gave the green light to something like this, and it's unlikely that any credible proof will be found to prove anything. And in the grand theme of things, it probably doesn't matter much, if at all. There will always be Palestinians willing to commit violence on their own, and there will always be Israeli leaders willing to hold everyone collectively responsible when it happens and it doesn't take too many of either to get a lot of innocent people killed. So anyway, that's why Israelis and Palestinians don't get to have nice things.
Except that Ottoman Turks happened to be have been already colonizing it for hundreds of years at the time. There were Jews and Arabs living there, but the national identities did not yet exist. I understand that for you, the issue is not the grievances of Palestinians living under occupation, but of the State of Israel having ever existed in the first place. But if you, like others, (rightfully or not accused of anti-semitism for doing so) choose to emphasize the latter at the expense of the former, you shouldn't expect to be invited to a serious discussion on the topic. Imagine if every time you tried to talk or write about Texas politics, like the current controversy involving Gov. Perry, as an example, and instead of writing about the topic at hand, I instead derailed it with how Central Texas was taken away from the Comanches in the 19th century and everyone ever born in Austin who isn't at least half native American is a white devil slave master colonialist sonofabitch for being so insensitive not only for choosing to be born there, but for using the colonial term "Texas" (a mispronounced and misappropriated Caddo word) instead of "Comancheria" for the region. It's unlikely that anyone would take me very seriously after a while, especially if I didn't even have the history right and just allowed my confirmation bias to do most of the work for me.
