1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Texas Cop Who Fatally Shot Man After Entering Wrong Apartment Identified

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rocket River, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    73,588
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Well, of course. Actually the funny thing was that one of the guys was like, "how do we know for sure about the guy's mental health? Maybe their both wrong!"
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  2. mr. 13 in 33

    mr. 13 in 33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,617
    Likes Received:
    636
  3. amaru

    amaru Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    16,609
    Likes Received:
    9,729
    Your right, I don’t know 100% what he’s thinking. I do know the history of the religion he is a part of (or at least heavily influenced by).

    It’s possible that he may understand the history but at 18 years old, it’s unlikely.

    My take might make you feel uncomfortable but it’s rooted in historical events, not feelings.
     
    CometsWin, mdrowe00 and jiggyfly like this.
  4. amaru

    amaru Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    16,609
    Likes Received:
    9,729
    1) I never said anything about forgiveness being limited to black Christians. I didn’t take the time to study non black Christian groups because, to be honest, I don’t care.

    2) I haven’t mentioned anything specifically about African Americans. I’ve consistently said “blacks on this side of the world”. It runs far deeper than just African Americans. Not all black people are African American. Hell most black people in the Western Hemisphere aren’t African American. I can tell you haven’t studied. Not sure why you keep trying to assert facts about a community you clearly don’t understand.

    3) I haven’t put any pressure on this kid...I don’t know him and he’ll likely never read this.

    4) You have no idea how “devout” he is. I’d be willing to bet that, like most Christians, he hasn’t even read the Bible cover to cover. But I have.

    5) It maybe disrespectful but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. The version of Christianity given to Afro-descendants in the Western Hemisphere is worthless. If it had any real value, it would have been taken just like everything else.
     
    Rocket River likes this.
  5. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,461
    Likes Received:
    17,151
    I've been searching for answers to these questions and found lots of conflicting info.

    What was Amber Guyger convicted of/sentenced for? First degree murder, or second degree murder?

    Is she, or is she not, eligible for parole? If so, when?

    I tried going into the Dallas County records database, and even though I found Guyger's records, they're a living nightmare to decipher.
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,909
    Likes Received:
    17,512
    I'm pretty sure that jury member posts on these boards.
     
    MadMax likes this.
  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    I don't have an issue with your historical facts and believe not enough is talked about them, I just don't think you can automatically say this is why this guy did that.

    Especially being 18 I don't see why he would have such reverence for white people.
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,142
    Likes Received:
    13,557
    No, I think she's pretty much screwed. Missing your 30s is tough. She will now likely never marry, never have a family of her own, never have a successful career. These are things people point out as the critical parts of a successful life. Her parents may well die while she's in prison, she will likely lose most of her friends. It won't be easy in a prison population where everyone knows you were the trigger-happy cop. She'll have worse health outcomes for being in prison. She'll have trouble getting any sort of job when she gets out. She won't be in for more than 10 years, but her whole life is ruined. She'll beat long odds if she's anything other than poor and lonely her whole life. And yes the same is true for everybody that goes into the prison system. Not trying to be sympathetic here, but nobody facing a 10 year sentence is lucky.

    Agreed.
     
    Nook likes this.
  9. amaru

    amaru Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    16,609
    Likes Received:
    9,729
    It’s ingrained in us from when we are young. Non black people are seen as “less than” in mainstream society. It’s hard to see if that is not your reality.
     
  10. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,461
    Likes Received:
    17,151
    I thought that Botham's brother was the one who handed Guyger the bible?

    Ooops -- nvm. Yeah that's crapola.
     
    Nook likes this.
  11. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    21,310
    Likes Received:
    11,755
    con·tempt
    /kənˈtem(p)t/

    disregard for something that should be taken into account.
    "this action displays an arrogant contempt for the wishes of the majority"
     
  12. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    34,727
    Likes Received:
    33,790
    According to NPR reporting yesterday, automatically eligible for parole after 1/2 sentence served (5 years). I don't know Murder 1 or Murder 2 or if parole is different in TX for those respective convictions.
     
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    I am black and I am a teacher, yes it was ingrained in me but I grew out of it in my 20's and I definitely don't see it with the youth of today.

    So yeah it is my reality.
     
    Nook likes this.
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Good catch.

    When I use contempt I think of having an outright dislike of a thing.

    Disregard is something I don't think about either way.

    The more you know.
     
    vlaurelio and B-Bob like this.
  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    34,727
    Likes Received:
    33,790
    what levels/grades do you teach? I'm biased, but I think teaching is a noble profession, or a good way to give to society anyway, if done well, if done in a way to encourage careful, independent thinking anyway.
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,142
    Likes Received:
    13,557
    You know, I had a lot to say in response to this post, but I deleted it. It's an issue that's a lot more personal for you than it is for me. So whoever is right, it won't go well. That's not a dig, like you're too emotional about it or something. But I don't want to argue about it with you. Peace brother.
     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  17. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    I have taught 7 graders and I currently teach different grade levels ranging from 6-12 in a out of school environment.

    I also teach credit recovery students who tend to be older.
     
    Hakeemtheking and B-Bob like this.
  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,716
    Likes Received:
    29,105
    She will probably be closer to 35

    Rocket River
     
    mdrowe00 likes this.
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,716
    Likes Received:
    29,105
    Man . .. I was on a tear about this one
    This is the most ridiculous **** I had seen since Charleston
    The indoctrination is real
    The Mythical Magical White Woman Tears are potent

    Then the Judge Hugging her too
    Then the Bailiff Stroking her hair

    How many brown and black defendants got that kind of treatment from the judge?

    --------------------------------------------------
    I found this article Interesting:
    https://karyncarlo.net/2019/10/03/d...pfF6BW-u95Zpfloct7QgwvzFGJf6UGEypCxz1XqjysBUs

    Dear White People: About Botham Jean, Forgiveness, Justice, and Cheap Grace
    Yesterday we watched the sentencing of a white woman, a former cop, convicted of murdering a black man named Botham Jean in his own apartment, unarmed, eating ice cream. She received the very minimal sentence of 10 years following which the brother of the murder victim gave her a big hug and said he forgave her. Many Christians applaud that hug saying it was an extraordinary act of grace on his part. Having never walked in his shoes I will not judge him. However as a white woman, also a former cop, and Christian theologian I will judge the way so many of us in the white community are so quick to applaud black people for forgiving white murderers. We did it following the Charleston nine and here we go again.

    We are quick to point to the way in which Jesus forgave his own killers even as he suffered on the cross and we hold that up as the model for victims to adhere to today. But wait a minute. Is that fair? As we usually do with Bible stories we cast ourselves in the role of Jesus but really white people in the U.S. are the Romans in this story. We are the crucifiers not the crucified, the defenders of brutal empire who perhaps feel a little guilty at the scene of yet another lynching taking place in our name. As such we hear “father forgive them” as good news. Even though we have killed Jesus and brutalized his people we need not really fear hell. Even the victim himself does not hold us accountable. We are innocent. We did not know what we were doing. Good news right? Wrong.

    Forgiveness without repentance is what theologian Dietrich Bonhoefer, quoting Adam Clayton Powell, called cheap grace. It lets us believe we are off the hook for our evil without demanding any real change on our part. In the case of the murder of Botham Jean cheap grace lets us white people maintain our sense of innocence and goodness without first facing up to the role we all play, knowingly or not, in maintaining systemic racism. In this case it allows us to avoid looking at the particularly brutal history of black men and white women. We don’t have to think about the thousands of lynchings, unjust crucifixions, that happened in our country due to black men being unjustly accused of raping white women. We don’t have to think about the way in which white women to this day are seen as fragile and innocent (particularly if they are or make themselves blond) while black men are perceived as threatening and dangerous even when they are in their own homes eating ice cream. In other words we do not need to see let alone repent of our sins. But is that the gospel? Is that grace?

    I say no. Let’s look at the “father forgive them” scenario again. Jesus of Nazareth who lived as an oppressed Jew under Roman occupation is, like many before him, being crucified as an enemy of state. (Side note- All of you chomping at the bit to inform me that Jesus’s crucifixion/lynching was “not political” because he was “dying for our sins” need to hold off until you read some of my upcoming posts about the racist roots of Anselmian substitutionary atonement theory. All of you who likewise want to blame “the Jews” need a lesson in the history of Christian anti-Semitism. All of you who similarly want to say “we are all equally guilty as sinners regardless of race” need to read a history book. Have I covered all the loopholes? If not I will get back to them. Today we are talking history.) So Jesus has been persecuted by Romans all of his life for preaching good news for the impoverished and oppressed people of Rome now hangs on one of thousands of crosses (which Dr. James Cone rightly identified as lynching trees) designed to support Roman supremacy. Notice that in every one of the passion narratives he has very little to say to his oppressors. At this point he is done talking to them. Notice also that Jesus does not forgive them. He asks God to do so. Notice furthermore that he essentially writes them off as ignorant “for they know not what they do.”

    Is that what we, as white citizens of a white supremacist nation want for ourselves? Will we be satisfied by a cheap grace that comes from being written off as ignorant? Will that restore the humanity we have lost to the false and demonic systems of racism and white supremacy? Will enforced (and it is enforced) forgiveness coming from black victims of racist violence be enough to save our souls?

    I am going with no on this. I don’t know about you but I want more for myself. When I see a white woman, entrusted to “protect and serve” all people who nontheless harbored racist ideas as evidenced by her texts to co-workers, who illegally entered a black man’s castle, shot him in cold blood, told a nonsense story, played Goldilocks on the stand, and got away with the most minimum sentence, I want to do better than cling to the “but his brother forgave her bless his heart” defense.

    I want to hold her and I both accountable, her for murder and me for whatever way I have, knowingly or not, contributed to the systemic racism that caused the murder. I reject cheap grace. I need justice to be done. I need the gift of true repentance for my own sins of racism. I need real soul salvation. I refuse to be written off as one of those who did not know what I was doing. I am better than that and so are you.
    --------------------------------------

    Rocket River
     
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,142
    Likes Received:
    13,557
    Article is interesting, but she casts an awfully wide net with her "us in the white community" bs.
     
    body slam, Nook and likestohypeguy like this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now