If they're (reportedly) trading him to the Chiefs, they wouldn't hesitate to send him to the Texans, assuming they made the best offer. There might be an extra fee for being a division rival - but if the goal is to win a Super Bowl, you've made it incredibly difficult for your franchise by not only keeping Ramsey in the conference but trading him to the best (or second-best) team.
PFF ranked him as the 36th best tackle in the NFL last year. Most services have him ranked 10-15 in the NFL as a LT. Perhaps he becomes very good or elite, but he hasn't been thus far in his career. He is solid and fills a position of need and the Texans right this minute are a better team with him........ but the cost was astronomical, especially when you consider their courting screwed them on Clowney. At this point all we can do is hope it works out. Still if Ramsey costs half of what Tunsil did, it will sting. Losing a #3 for Johnson, losing 2 #1's and a #2 the next couple season is going to greatly handicap the organization.
Ramsey is 24 and a game changer. Him going to the Chiefs or Patriots will be the worst case scenarios.
A game changer for KC because the PAts got Antonio and so they will need Ramsey to help. For us? Nah, it doesn't matter, we are not beating KC, NE, or the LAR. That's like the first tier of teams. We are like hovering at the bottom of the 2nd tier of teams. It's going to take some luck for us to win a superbowl, which happens from time to time, but KC wipes the floor with us with or without Ramsey. Now maybe if we got Ramsey it would push us up closer to the first tier, but...yeah, I don't see that happening.
I had gone back to finish my thoughts but didn't end up editing the post. Yes, you are right. It would get us closer to having a shot to contend. The Texans defense would be stingy with Ramsey imo.
Tunsil was a good citizen and good Dolphin, Ramsey hasn't bee a good Jag lately. Coughlin probably hates him LOL.
It's not apples to apples, though - Tunsil wasn't demanding a trade and wasn't readily available; the Texans had to essentially force the Dolphins' hand. Ramsey has his team over the barrel in that a disgruntled star player can be disruptive and potentially worse (see Antonio Brown); in doing so, he's lessened the team's leverage.
The outcome is the same and that is what is relevant. The Texans don't get brownie points because the Dolphins did not want to trade Tunsil and only did it after the Texans overpaid. That is the case with the Pats and Brown as well. The organizations that win typically find a way to get players that help them at less than a premium cost. Look at the Astros with Osuna, or the Pats with Antonio Brown and a number of other players. The price the Texans paid is the price they paid. Also, paying a premium was in large part the Texans fault to begin with by not addressing the issue earlier and trading away a LT that was very good.
I think you're mistaking my response as a defense of the trade... It's not. But it's disingenuous to use the (potential) Ramsey trade to further bludgeon the Texans - the situations are entirely different. Frankly, if Ramsey is dealt for a 1 and a 3, the team that looks REALLY bad is Pittsburgh, who paid a 1 for a vastly inferior defensive back. Yes; the Astros were.... savvy, re: Osuna. They also gutted their system to land Zack Greinke. The Pats/Brown situation isn't relevant - he was a free agent and chose them. Yes, of course. I will say, however, that I remain pleasantly surprised that their desperation at least landed on a young LT with upside. Usually a situation that bleak leads to the same deal but to Washington for Trent Williams - you can kick the deal a lot of different ways. but getting an elite, 26-year old prospect is the best case scenario in an ocean of really bad scenarios.
See I don't think the Brown situation is different. The Patriots almost never put themselves in a position where they have to overpay. They (like the Astros) are able to wait for good value. I don't think the Astros gutted their farm system for Greinke at all. The best player they lost is Seth Beer and they added one of the 10 best pitchers in baseball for multiple years with the Diamondbacks paying a good chunk of his salary. I don't think Tunsil is elite.... I don't think he has ever been elite in the NFL. He is a slightly above average starting left tackle. They didn't trade 2X1 and 1X2 for Anthony Munoz or Orlando Pace. I HOPE that he becomes an All Pro type player but he isn't one so far.
Sorry to jump in but you keep bringing up how Tunsil isn’t elite right now and you hope he becomes one, implying that we overpaid for an average left tackle. The problem I have with this thinking is that he is 26 (I think) and is widely considered one of 2 or 3 of the best young left tackles in the game. He is expected to continue to improve and should be the left tackle of this team for the foreseeable future and is expected to be a top left tackle in the future. How often are those types of players traded? There isn’t really a comp for this trade as far as I know. I guess we overpaid but I’m not sure what the asking price should be for a left tackle like Tunsil... they just usually aren’t traded.
Right now Tunsil is only an above average left tackle. He is ranked anywhere from 11-15 in the league on the left side. There are no guarantees that he continues to improve. The hope is that he will, but there is no guarantee.
I agree with all of that, but he does have potential to improve. And left tackles with that type of potential don’t usually get traded, so the cost is expected to be high (still we paid a whole lot for him so like you said, he better work out)
Agreed; there's really no comp to this - maybe Kalil Mack - who was better than Tunsil but matches him in pedigree, youth and cost. Tunsil was a consensus top 5 prospect who went to an ever-worsening situation in Miami. You're exactly right - those players are almost never available and, honestly, I'm still confused why Miami dealt him as he should've been the cornerstone of their rebuild. Nook is relying exclusively on PFF grades to assess Tunsil, and those can be suspect. Wade Smith and Seth Payne are both very high on Tunsil, who, remember, has literally been here less than 3 weeks.
It's different, Nook. He was a free agent. I mean... we can go back and forth on this or that - but we have to start from some fairly objective common ground. Trading for a player is not, in any way, comparable to signing a free agent. Also, as with Tunsil - can we wait & see if the Patriots and Brown make it out of this season alive before we crown the deal?... If your standard is one of the NFL's greatest dynasties or a currently-forming dynasty, I mean... good luck. That's an incredibly high bar. Having said that, both teams have made a ton of mistakes. They absolutely gutted their farm system, man - how can you stomp your feet about draft picks and not apply the same caution to the Astros? By consensus, four of their 10 best prospects on the eve of having to try and pay a lot of really good players... As with picks, prospects are as much about quantity as quality. They are now, essentially, down a generation of prospects. It's not a death knell (especially with Luhnow in charge) - but it was a steep price to pay.