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Ready The Clown Car: The First Batch of Democrats Are Ready To Announce Their 2020 Bids

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. biff17

    biff17 Member

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  2. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Understand?

    Understand that I had no idea that the right was trying to label Maddow as a conspiracy theorists.

    Thanks for that at least.
     
  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    This pretty much covers the second night of the first debate:

     
  4. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    So up until last night, Kamala Harris had been a shocking disappointment to a great many pundits and experts, with her RCP poll average numbers hovering around 7%. Also, she has been looking weak in South Carolina, where if she cannot do well, she is very likely going to be an early out.

    Kamala Harris has the strongest "Identity politics" credentials of anyone in the field. She is 1) not white and 2) a woman. Based largely on these credentials, she has been expected by a great many people to be serious competitor. Because "Political correctness".

    Of course for this to work, she will need to play the race card early and often, feeding the fires of racial divisiveness and animosity and tribalism. Until last night, she had not been effective in her efforts to do that.

    Joe Biden has been in the lead in the early polls, based very largely on name recognition. Some people may not know this, but Senator Harris is not all that well known in her home state of California, much less nationally. So with most people still not all that tuned in - and with nothing really to tune into until this week's first "debate" - Biden has gotten a lot of support and Harris not so much.

    One big problem that Harris came into the debate needing to address was that Biden had, at least in the early polls, hoovered up most of the stated support from the black community. She cannot be hope to be competitive if this continues to be the case. So, her team's challenge was to figure out a way to separate Biden from his support, especially among the black community.

    We saw their answer last night when she basically tagged Biden as an old-school racist and a segregationist. She also did this with a tone that clearly stated when she invokes the race card, everyone including the moderators of any debate get to shut their pie holes and stay out of her way while she bellows forth.

    And they did.

    We will have to watch and see in the weeks to come if this motivates the sort of realignment that she was clearly shooting for. But there is good reason to think that it may very well work.
     
  6. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Kamala Harris has picked up two endorsements in Iowa after last night's debate. If she somehow can finish in the top three in Iowa, which will not be easy for her at all, then hold on to your hats.

    Harris claims Iowa momentum after first Democratic debates

    Two prominent Iowa Democratic activists said Friday they will back Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) after she stood out on the Democratic debate stage against higher-polling rivals. Vergarie Sanford, minister of Mount Zion Refuge Center Church in Council Bluffs, and Tom Fisher, a Des Moines attorney, both joined Harris's team.

    Harris returns to Iowa for a three-day campaign swing next week, over the 4th of July weekend. Some Democratic caucus-goers will be eager to see Harris on the trail. The most common knock on Harris from activists is that she has not yet made the requisite appearances in their home towns.

    "She has not been spending a lot of time in Iowa," said Paula Smith, an associate dean at Grinnell College, who watched Thursday's debate with area Democrats at a local brewery. Smith said she had met five of the Democratic candidates running so far, but not Harris. Still, Harris has built an Iowa campaign team that rivals higher-polling candidates in size.​
     
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    David Axelrod weighs in. This is right on.

    Harris takedown sparks speculation over Biden's black support

    Still, David Axelrod, the former strategist to Barack Obama, opined on CNN that the clash could hurt Biden with African Americans. He cited a recent poll showing Biden walloping the field with the highest African-American vote share while Harris had 12 percent.

    “These kinds of exchanges can have an impact on that number, and that number is one of the reasons why he is sitting in such a strong position nationally,” Axelrod said. “So this has some perilous implications for him in this regard. On the other end of the equation, the question still remains if not him, who?”
     
  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Joe Scarborough declares the second debate to be a disaster for the Democrats and hopes that people were not watching:



    Joe Scarborough smacks Democrats for 'disastrous' second debate: I hope 'people were not watching'

    "Last night was a disaster for the Democratic Party," Scarborough said Friday. "My only hope is people were not watching, and I will tell you why. First of all, on policy — well, let’s talk about the goal which every Democrat believes, which is, ‘We have to beat Donald Trump.’ Right? So they’re lined up in trench warfare, ready to get out of the trenches, and charge and fight Donald Trump," he said. "Instead, they all turn their guns on each other and shoot each other.

    ....

    "It is a position of every Democrat on that stage that illegal immigrants, if they cross the border illegally, should get healthcare for life," he said. "It is then the position of every Democrat on that stage, that if they cross the border illegally it’s not even illegal anymore?"​
     
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  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    2019-06-28.png
     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    Bret Stephens' column in the NYT this morning:

    A Wretched Start for Democrats
    The party seems interested in helping everyone except the voters it needs.
    By Bret Stephens
    Opinion Columnist
    June 28, 2019

    Amigos demócratas,

    Si ustedes siguen así, van a perder las elecciones. Y lo merecerán.

    Translation for the linguistically benighted: “Democratic friends, if you go on like this, you’re going to lose the elections. And you’ll deserve it.”

    In this week’s Democratic debates, it wasn’t just individual candidates who presented themselves to the public. It was also the party itself. What conclusions should ordinary people draw about what Democrats stand for, other than a thunderous repudiation of Donald Trump, and how they see America, other than as a land of unscrupulous profiteers and hapless victims?

    Here’s what: a party that makes too many Americans feel like strangers in their own country. A party that puts more of its faith, and invests most of its efforts, in them instead of us.

    They speak Spanish. We don’t. They are not U.S. citizens or legal residents. We are. They broke the rules to get into this country. We didn’t. They pay few or no taxes. We already pay most of those taxes. They willingly got themselves into debt. We’re asked to write it off. They don’t pay the premiums for private health insurance. We’re supposed to give up ours in exchange for some V.A.-type nightmare. They didn’t start enterprises that create employment and drive innovation. We’re expected to join the candidates in demonizing the job-creators, breaking up their businesses and taxing them to the hilt.

    That was the broad gist of the Democratic message, in which the only honorable exceptions, like Maryland’s John Delaney and Colorado’s John Hickenlooper, came across as square dancers at a rave.

    On closer inspection, the message got even worse.

    Promising access to health insurance for north of 11 million undocumented immigrants at a time when there’s a migration crisis at the southern border? Every candidate at Thursday’s debate raised a hand for that one, in what was surely the evening’s best moment for the Trump campaign.

    Calling for the decriminalization of border crossings (while opposing a wall)? That was a major theme of Wednesday’s debate, underlining the Republican contention that Democrats are a party of open borders, limitless amnesty and, in time, the Third World-ization of America.

    Switching to Spanish? Memo to Beto O’Rourke and Cory Booker: If you can’t speak the language without a heavy American accent, don’t bother. It just reminds those of us who can that the only thing worse than an obnoxious gringo is a pandering one.

    Eliminating private health insurance, an industry that employs more than 500,000 workers and insures 150 million? Elizabeth Warren, Bill de Blasio, Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris support it (though the California senator later recanted the position). Since Democrats are already committed to destroying the coal industry and seem inclined to turn Silicon Valley into a regulated utility, it’s worth asking: Just how much of the private economy are they even willing to keep?

    And then there are the costs that Democrats want to impose on the country. Warren, for instance, favors universal child care (estimated cost, $70 billion a year), Medicare-For-All ($2.8 trillion to $3.2 trillion annually), student-debt cancellation and universal free college ($125 billion annually), and a comprehensive climate action plan ($2 trillion, including $100 billion in aid to poor countries), along with a raft of smaller giveaways, like debt relief for Puerto Rico.

    As Everett Dirksen might have said: A trillion here, a trillion there, and pretty soon you’re talking real money. Someone will have to pay for all this, and it won’t just be the very rich making between seven and 10 figures a year. It will be you.

    Throughout the debates, I kept wondering if any of the leading candidates would speak to Americans beyond the Democratic base. But Joe Biden seemed too feeble, oratorically and intellectually, to buck the self-defeating trend. Pete Buttigieg was, as always, fluent, knowledgeable and sincere. But his big moment — a mea culpa for a racially charged policing incident in South Bend — felt like another well-mannered white guy desperate to put his wokeness on display.

    Harris, meanwhile, came across as Barack Obama in reverse, especially with her scurrilous attack on Biden for the sin of having had a functional political relationship with two former segregationist senators in the 1970s. This was portrayed as a clever debate move but it will come to haunt her.

    Obama’s political genius was to emphasize what Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt, authors of ‘The Coddling of the American Mind,” have called “common-humanity identity politics”— he made you feel comfortable no matter the color of your skin. Harris’s approach, by contrast, is “common-enemy identity politics.” Making white Americans feel racially on trial for views they may have held in the past on crime, busing and similar subjects is not going to help the Democrats.

    None of this means that Democrats can’t win in 2020. The economy could take a bad turn. Or Trump could outdo himself in loathsomeness. But the Democratic Party we saw this week did even less to appeal beyond its base than the president. And at least his message is that he’s on their — make that our — side.

    Bret L. Stephens has been an Opinion columnist with The Times since April 2017. He won a Pulitzer Prize for commentary at The Wall Street Journal in 2013 and was previously editor in chief of The Jerusalem Post.
    A version of this article appears in print on June 29, 2019, on Page A25 of the New York edition with the headline: A Wretched Start for Democrats.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/...ule=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Contributors
     
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  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    WSJ Editorial Board this morning:

    Bernie Sanders Won the Debate
    He may not be the nominee, but he has set the Democratic agenda.
    By
    The Editorial Board
    June 28, 2019 7:13 pm ET

    President Trump is a lucky man. Typically a re-election campaign is a referendum on the incumbent, and Mr. Trump is losing that race. But the Democrats are moving left so rapidly that they may let him turn 2020 into a choice between his policy record and the most extreme liberal agenda since 1972 (which may be unfair to George McGovern).

    That’s the most significant political message from two nights of debate in Miami this week among 20 Democratic presidential candidates. The party hasn’t merely moved to the left of Bill Clinton’s New Democrats of the 1990s. Democrats have moved to the left of where they were in 2010 when they last ran the government. Bernie Sanders lost to Hillary Clinton in 2016, but he has won the ideological debate.

    ***
    Start with the Democrats’ description of America in 2019 as a bleak house for everyone but the very rich. The economy is “doing great for people who want to invest in private prisons, just not for the African-Americans and Latinx whose families are torn apart, whose lives are destroyed, and whose communities are ruined,” said Elizabeth Warren, in a dirge typical of the two debates. “It’s doing great for giant oil companies that want to drill everywhere, just not for the rest of us who are watching climate change bear down upon us.”

    This is Mr. Sanders’ vision of America relentlessly divided by class, race and gender. Women live in “The Handmaid’s Tale” and minorities in the pre-Civil Rights Act South. Do they think Americans don’t remember that an African-American was President and so were his two attorneys general?

    Perhaps their image of America as an Argentina of inequality might sell in a recession year like 2008. But Americans give Mr. Trump high marks on the economy, and consumer confidence is high despite a recent dip. Incomes are finally rising faster for the lower-skilled than for managers. The jobless rate is the lowest in two generations, and notably low for blacks and Hispanics.

    Or take health care, as nearly all of the candidates now consider ObamaCare to be inadequate. Ms. Warren has endorsed Bernie’s Medicare for All bill, which would abolish private insurance for 177 million Americans. So has Kamala Harris, though she now seems to be hedging and says she’d allow private insurance for “supplemental” coverage. But she isn’t clear if that’s for optional procedures like cosmetic surgery or regular health coverage.

    Most of the other candidates favor expanding the Affordable Care Act with a “public option,” or government-run plan, that would compete with private insurance. New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand said this would “move us to single-payer more quickly.” She may be right, which is one reason the public option couldn’t pass even the Democratic House in 2010. Yet now this is the “moderate” party position.

    The same leftward lurch is apparent on issue after issue.

    • Climate change is now an urgent crisis that demands eliminating not merely the coal industry but all fossil fuels.

    • Enforcing immigration laws that were once passed by bipartisan majorities in Congress is now inhumane. Joe Biden is attacked because the Obama Administration deported millions of undocumented migrants.

    • Free health care for Americans isn’t enough; now it must also be an entitlement for any foreign migrant who enters the U.S.

    • College loans must be forgiven in part or whole, and tuition now must be free.

    • Taxes must be raised to rates unheard of since the 1960s because, as New York Mayor Bill de Blasio put it, money is “just in the wrong hands.”

    • The Electoral College must be killed to save American democracy, and the Supreme Court must be packed with more Justices because the left now sometimes loses decisions.

    Not all of the candidates on stage in Miami endorse all of these positions, but most do favor most of them. The two candidates who dared to warn that some of this might go too far—former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper and former Maryland Congressman John Delaney—are being dismissed as irrelevant in the post-debate coverage. They are said to have no chance at the nomination.

    It isn’t clear why the Democrats have moved so far left so fast. Perhaps it is changing demographics led by the millennial socialists scarred by the Great Recession. Perhaps Mr. Trump’s conservative populism has inspired its counterpart on the left.

    Whatever the cause, this Bernie Sanders triumph is the single most important development in the 2020 campaign. Mr. Trump should be grateful. If this is the opposition agenda next year, he might win a second term.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-won-the-debate-11561763598?mod=hp_opin_pos3
     
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  13. Hakeemtheking

    Hakeemtheking Member

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    Republicans should not have any moral ground to talk about the federal deficit (lol), improving the lives of ordinary Americans (minimal or no tax benefit, except for the fat cats) or even an opinion regarding these political debates (have you forgotten the chitshow that was Trump debates against his felow candidates?
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Frank Bruni at the New York Times reveals the ultimate "Progressive" left' wet dream fantasy ticket is Harris-Buttigieg for 2020.

    And Now, the Dream of a Harris-Buttigieg Ticket

    Harris had a fire that Buttigieg lacked, and it was mesmerizing. She challenged Biden not just on busing but on sloppy recent comments of his that seemed affectionate toward segregationists. She picked apart Trump’s boasts of a spectacularly booming economy, telling the right number of right anecdotes at the right time.

    And she mixed strength with warmth and even humor. As candidates shouted over one another in a lunge for microphone time, she found a cranny of oratorical space in which to land a good line. “Hey, guys, you know what?” she said. “America does not want to witness a food fight. They want to know how we’re going to put food on their table.” It neatly pegged men as compulsive interrupters — a leitmotif of the previous night’s debate — while flying a feminist flag less strenuously than Kirsten Gillibrand, at the lectern beside hers, did.

    Imagine a Harris-Buttigieg ticket, and not only what a wealth of poise but what a double scoop of precedents that would be. Plenty of people on Twitter on Thursday night were doing precisely that. Plenty more will do so in the coming days, and they should leaven that fantasy with a reality check about how far to the left Harris in particular has moved. She was one of just two candidates on Thursday night who said that she wanted to do away with private health insurance. Sanders was the other. And that could be a general-election problem for her, as it could for Elizabeth Warren, who took that same position the night before.

    More at the link....​

    They like Elizabeth Warren, but if Kamala Harris can achieve orbital velocity, it appears that they may even like her more. And Mayor Pete is just dreamy. Poor Pocahontas.

    Why is that? Well, the author tells us in the bolded section above. Because of the double scoop of "precedents" that this would provide. Of course this is referring to the cumulative number of unique "Identity politics" credentials that Harris and Buttigieg would offer together. Which is too bad for Warren, because without those Native American credentials, she cannot hang with Kamala on this score.
     
  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    John Kass writes very persuasively at the Chicago Tribune that Joe Biden is done. I am reluctant to make a final declaration of agreement about this. However, that being said, his analysis does appear to be correct.

    But that in his view is less important than the Democrat candidates public embrace of "open borders" during these debates. Yeah, I know they still do not like to hear it called that. But insisting that illegal immigration be decriminalized, in other words made no longer illegal, is the icing on the cake. The cat is out of the bag. They will own this policy choice in this election and it will be a factor in the outcome.

    And that is indeed the big news coming out of these first two nights of debates.

    Kass speaks to all of this in his article, linked below. It is an excellently insightful article. But I am going to quote from another section of the article, which I believe readers here might find thoughtfully informative and correct.

    Did you see the way that Kamala Harris kicked Joe Biden hard with a steel toed boot, straight to the political jimmy's with the "Race" issue? Kass correctly observes that Pocahantus is well positioned to be the recipient of a similar beat down, as a result of her dishonest effort to appropriate a new non-white race and culture for herself.

    Biden Is Toast--and So Is the Party of Open Borders

    Harris is a former prosecutor, a trial lawyer, and showed she can handle pressure. She calmly embraced all that heat on the debate stage, brought it to her for dramatic effect, drew it in, then released it right at Biden.

    The way she played Biden and race, just think what she’ll do to Warren, who vaulted herself onto the faculty of Harvard Law School as a Cherokee and came up with those ridiculous recipes involving cold crab meat that were offered up as true Native American fare.

    Warren’s career is a creation myth born in identity politics. She insisted she was a Cherokee, and Harvard praised her for it as if ethnicity was a virtue, perhaps because Harvard was desperate to promote minorities on its law school faculty.

    Then Warren’s embarrassing DNA test came out. No further questions, your honor. But Harris will have questions. Bet on it.​

    Seriously, when the day comes, if you are squeamish, you need to be ready to turn away. This Kamala Harris person is nasty and she does not appear to be pulling any punches or taking any prisoners, even in her own party.
     
  16. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Somebody was asking for more cartoons. Well here is one:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    While Trump is in Japan joking around with Putin, lying about a Saudi murder, and showing a complete misunderstanding of what a liberal Democracy entails, the Trump lap dogs are ova hea with their cartoons and editorials, holding all candidates to a higher standard than their schmuck President. Kudos.
     
  18. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Sounds like 'whataboutism', don't you agree?
     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Biden 33, Sanders 19, Warren 12, Harris 12, Buttigieg 6, Booker 3

    It appears that Biden's support is holding up, at least for now. But Harris is on the rise and Bernie Sanders support appears to be softening, as he is in a battle with Elizabeth Warren for the support of the hard left "Progressive" vote.

    Of course these numbers will continue to move. It is hard to imagine Joe Biden sustaining anything close to this level of support through the primaries over the next year. He does not look like he has it in him.

    I am going to keep saying this - There is a huge hole open for a true moderate candidate to supplant Joe Biden. It is hard to imagine that nobody moves in to fill this gap, although it is not at all clear who that might be at this point.

    Post-Debate Special: The State of the Democratic Primary

    Morning Consult surveyed 2,407 Democratic primary voters immediately following the first Democratic primary debate. The full results and methodology are available below. Read the analysis here.

    On a daily basis, Morning Consult is surveying over 5,000 registered voters across the United States on the 2020 presidential election. Every Monday, we’ll update this page with the latest survey data, offering an in-depth guide to how the race for the Democratic nomination is shaping up.​
     

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