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Ready The Clown Car: The First Batch of Democrats Are Ready To Announce Their 2020 Bids

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Jan 1, 2019.

Page 52 of 160
  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Biden has reversed himself on the Hyde Amendment, which supposedly prohibits federal funding of abortions.

    Biden World shell-shocked amid Hyde furor

    A source familiar with Biden's thinking said it was a complicated issue, inextricably intertwined with the former vice president’s Catholicism. “The Biden ethos is family and faith,” the source said. “Always has been, always will be.”

    Such explanations beg the question of what justification — other than cold-eyed political calculation — could be offered for such a rapid U-turn on an issue that is fundamentally the same as it ever was. “I think he realized very quickly that the world has changed, even since a year ago. Abortion clinics are closing, Planned Parenthood is in trouble and there aren't a lot of options for underprivileged folks. The climate has completely changed,” said another Biden ally.

    The broader danger for Biden may be the way in which the change on the Hyde Amendment invites scrutiny of other parts of his past record that sit uneasily with today’s Democratic Party, where progressives are widely seen as ascendant.​

    Let's remember, he signed on to the green new deal just last week.

    Joe Biden embraces Green New Deal as he releases climate plan

    “Biden has been trying to take somewhat of a centrist tack, but he has to appease the core of the base if he’s going to win the primary,” said Jim Manley, who served as an aide to former Senate majority leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.). “They’ve needed to start throwing down some solid policies that will appease the left.”

    To that end, Biden’s climate plan adopts the rhetoric — and at times, many of the actual policy proposals — of the Green New Deal resolution put forward this year by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) and Sen. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.), which calls on the nation to eliminate its carbon footprint by 2030.​

    Supposedly, Biden is the "centrist" or "moderate" candidate for the Democrats this time around. But as he flips and flops and adjusts his positions consistently to the left, what is it that makes him attractive to moderate Democrats again?

    If he basically is going to embrace pretty much the same agenda that the far left "progressive" candidates are, then why should voters not just vote for one of them? At least some of them actually appear to believe in this stuff. Biden clearly doesn't. He is just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping that it sticks.
     
    #1021 MojoMan, Jun 7, 2019
    DonnyMost likes this.
  2. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Why do you think this?

    He is leading in both polls how do you think he will be demolished.

    What are you basing this on.
     
    #1022 biff17, Jun 7, 2019
  3. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    So why is Bernie sinking in the polls?
     
    #1023 biff17, Jun 7, 2019
  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    See my prior post just above yours.
     
    #1024 MojoMan, Jun 7, 2019
  5. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    That has no bearing on him getting demolished in Iowa and New Hampshire.

    Those issues bring him more in line with those states.
     
    #1025 biff17, Jun 7, 2019
  6. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    Bernie is going to find sledding tougher than before. His problem (more competition) and Biden's problem (being a turd of a candidate) are not related.
     
    #1026 DonnyMost, Jun 7, 2019
  7. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    Historical precedent and current trends.

    In much more friendly environments in the past Biden has gotten crushed when the knives came out.

    Today's environment is even less friendly to old guard corporate Dems like him.

    Right now the average American couldn't name more than one Democrat running for President, and Biden is enjoying the afterglow of 8 years as Obama's hype-man.

    When reality hits at the first caucuses Biden is going to get clobbered because his record flat out sucks.

    His only hope is that he maintains a market share due to him being the most (if not the only) milque-toast liberal on the ballot.

    Even in the base case scenario that he rides that further than he has in the past, it will prove fatal once the number of further left Democrats starts narrowing and coalescing.
     
    #1027 DonnyMost, Jun 7, 2019
  8. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    So you only rational for Biden getting destroyed in these states is because you think he is a turd of a candidate.

    Seems legit.
     
    #1028 biff17, Jun 7, 2019
  9. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    The current trends are that he is leading in all of the polls and in Iowa and New Hampshire.

    Biden is known commodity there is nothing that will be a huge surprise.

    the majority of the Democratic party is more moderate than further left and most of the farther left candidates will still be running through those two states so your coalescing argument does not hold much merit.
     
    #1029 biff17, Jun 7, 2019
  10. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    #1030 DonnyMost, Jun 7, 2019
  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    If Bernie can slog it out past the first four primaries - which he certainly should be able to do - then he is going to be looking at a very different race from that point forward. But from now until then, it is probably going to be slow going.
     
    #1031 MojoMan, Jun 7, 2019
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I would be curious to hear someone explain why they think Joe Biden is personally a good candidate for President of the United States right now, aside from the fact that he served as Obama's VP for eight years and that the Democrat establishment elites and most of the Democrat left media are apparently backing him as the establishment's preferred candidate.
     
    #1032 MojoMan, Jun 7, 2019
  13. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    The latest poll has him up 11 in Iowa

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...iowa_democratic_presidential_caucus-6731.html

    18 in New Hampshire

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...ire_democratic_presidential_primary-6276.html

    So you think what happened in 2008 means more than current trends.
     
    #1033 biff17, Jun 7, 2019
  14. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    My fear is that Bernie, as a straight white male, will eventually be cannibalized by the SJW monolith.

    A lot of his supporters from 2016 will find cool new candidates to latch onto in part due to identity politics.

    He's done a lot of good to return the Democrats back to their populist roots, but I can't see him making it all the way this time.
     
    #1034 DonnyMost, Jun 7, 2019
  15. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    1) As I already said, it's super early and barely anyone is paying attention. The polls are mostly reflecting name recognition at this point.

    2) Look at the field. 20+ Democrats. Almost every single one of them are more liberal than Joe Biden. The story here isn't "Joe Biden 23 points - Bernie 19". The story is "Joe Biden 23 points -- More liberal candidates 77 points". As the field narrows, far more people will jump from their liberal of choice to another liberal, and not Joe Biden. For Biden there is no where to go but down, and that's a bad thing for his future prospects.
     
    #1035 DonnyMost, Jun 7, 2019
  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Agree. Biden's lead currently is only held up from name recognition only. Once the debates roll out, and there is more exposure to the other candidates, he can't go up anymore. This is the height of Biden's popularity.
     
    #1036 fchowd0311, Jun 7, 2019
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The thing is, none of the other candidates on the left have any real spunk. Sanders does. I mean seriously, Corey Booker? Elizabeth Warren? Mayor Pete is probably your next best bet on this score, but that is not going to happen. Unless you think watching him swap spit with his partner before and after all of his appearances is going to be a big unifying vote getter. {Spoiler: It isn't}

    I disagree with Bernie on almost everything. But he really does believe what he is saying and he is not standing down or changing his positions based on whatever the latest focus group says or based on pressure from the talking heads. He is the real thing, if you like the kind of thing that he is. Which deep down, it appears to me that a great many Democrats currently do.

    The rest of these candidates cannot touch that. They are just regular politicians, hiring advisors, conducting focus groups, strategizing, issuing statements designed to garner attention, and going through the same process that gave you guys last time: Hillary Clinton - a candidate worse than Donald Trump.

    I will not bet on Bernie to win the nomination, but I do respect him and I do believe he is almost certainly going to be a major player again this time around.
     
    #1037 MojoMan, Jun 7, 2019
  18. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    Not sure about this mythical Spunk-o-meter, but there is plenty of time and room left for candidates to seize some momentum. In a field of 20+ candidates it is going to be very difficult to make waves. Victory at this stage is measured in millimeters, not inches, and certainly not feet.

    I had (and still have) my doubts about Warren's ability to inspire but she has impressed me so far. Booker, Klobuchar, Gilibrand, Castro, Biden, Bennet, Inslee, Hickenlooper, Delaney, Swalwell... total snooze jobs. I think Gabbard, Yang, Beto, Buttigieg and Harris all have high ceilings; but whether they can survive long enough to gain serious momentum is yet to be seen (and for some looking very unlikely).

    Side note -- Your comments about homosexuals come off as really ugly and mean-spirited. Like you have a problem with them or something on a much deeper level. Even if that is not the case, as a casual observer I thought you should know.

    In addition to Bernie this is how I feel about Yang, Gabbard, and Warren. They are genuine problem solvers and patriots.
     
    #1038 DonnyMost, Jun 7, 2019
  19. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Who’ll be first to condemn this barbaric, oppressive sport?

     
    #1039 Cohete Rojo, Jun 7, 2019
  20. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Probably you because everyone knows you suck at dodgeball.
     
    #1040 KingCheetah, Jun 7, 2019
    LosPollosHermanos likes this.
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