[Middle East] US embassy in Israel to be moved from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem

Man conservatives have no shame being globalist, interventionists.....

 

Well, Trump just got rid US as a mediator for the Middle East peace process, maybe that is his goal the whole time, LOL.

 

Isn't that the entire point of statecraft? People with decades of diplomatic experience do their best to predict what happens after actions a, b and c. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong. Contingencies have contingencies and predicting exactly what the outcome of diplomatic actions will be seems like a fool's errand.

I'm not a big fan of the Palestinian leadership or any group that seeks spiritual justification for never-ending conflict. The Arab states have been publicly ignoring reality for decades (Israel exists and it isn't going anywhere) as a way to keep their populations focused on things other than domestic issues and state abuse. As technology continues to expand in these countries, I bet the regimes will have a harder time blaming all of their problems on the Jewish boogeyman.

I'm also not a fan of American evangelicals using the Jews as an instrument to trigger their preferred doomsday. Propping up a country of people who you believe are condemned non-believers in the event of your armageddon is gross.

 

Here you go take a read.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/senat...rking-50-years-since-jerusalem-reunification/

 

Maybe Doomsday is coming, but instead of evil people fighting for devil, I think it might be terminator and skynet that will wipe the human race.

 

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but the US hasn't been seen as a credible negotiator or contributed anything towards improving diplomacy there since the late 70s, except for maybe James Baker and I wouldn't be offended if you included him. And wow did Shamir hate Baker. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of true believers in a two state solution left in the entire Levant. That died with Rabin and it's terrible for business, besides. Wars are job creators, especially low intensity, constant ones.

Moving the embassy does diminish US credibility in the Middle East, and it's been discussed for years, but does anyone think the US has a shred of diplomatic credibility in the Middle East to lose? Two decades of relentless US invasions and drone strikes in neighboring states for "freedom" have already diminished that credibility to virtually nothing, which is nothing to say of UN Security Council vetos on resolutions against the settler project. No one takes US "peace envoys" seriously and why should they? They've been a target for Israeli comedians for a long, long time.

No, it doesn't accomplish much. IMHO the US consulate in Jerusalem serves the needs of the population there already --and ironically, mostly Palestinians, since it also serves the West Bank. It probably makes more practical sense to have it in Tel Aviv anyway since there's more actual business there to do. You could call the consulate an embassy and the embassy a consulate and while the fragile Israeli ego is in jubilation that its own capital is being recognized, let's not pretend what this is about.

It's about Trump and red meat and his base and it rings true that all politics are indeed local, and hey, at least that's one campaign promise he kept to his base. Do you think Trump really cares where the US embassy is in Israel or gave it much thought or consulted several experts to get a consensus opinion?

But in the same vein, all those visits by the Clinton, Bush, and Obama administrations and talk of peace were also political theater for their own constituency. They may have been untrue in the first two years of Clinton before Rabin died, but it has become a game that everyone has been happy to disingenuously play because it brought in billions of promised money for the Israeli military budget, the corrupt Palestinian Administration, and American defense contractors who supplied the goods to both parties.

 

Yeah, I know. Those embassies won't be moving either. Trump is strengthening Israel's negotiating position, but reducing Palestine's incentive to agree to a settlement.

 

Just remember how long it took Jewish people to get back to Israel, thing change over time.

 

It is certainly not the goal of many, but it is still the best option for a peace. There is no reason to abandon a Jewish homeland. There is no reason to abandon the idea of a Palestinian nation. I think we've all debated and discussed the rights and wrongs from both sides. I'm not going to get into that debate in this thread.

I do want peace and justice for everyone in the region.

This decision has already resulted in unrest and shown the United States to not be a neutral negotiator in the struggle for peace. The United States has ceded yet another position of leadership in the world. It will have to be others who pick up the standard for trying to bring peace in the middle east.

 

Your lack of understanding of the 1948 war is sad.

 

what are we intervening in? If anything other Muslim countries are intervening by telling us where to put our embassy.

 

Because Russia was never seen as having a leadership role in the push for peace in the region.

 

haha like the US has credibility in "pushing for peace" there.

 

I'm still reconciling myself to the idea that we are not going to be the leaders of the free world anymore. We're just another dog in the scrum. I thought that was inevitable but I didn't think it'd happen already. @txtony is right this decision fits neatly into Trump's wider withdrawal from international roles, just as Trump said he would do. I think his ambition for America is too small. But, like the European powers had to eventually cede the stage to the US as hegemony shifted, we too will have to start ceding some of the stage to China. Trump's just giving us a bit of a jump-start.

 

Don't worry, JuanValdez. The Democrats will undo everything damaging he did once they take back the House, the Senate, and the Presidency. We will re-join our rightful place in leading the free world. I think there is going to be a big party once a new president is elected in the next election. You better believe all the people who stayed home last vote are going to be coming out for that one. We just have to survive his presidency until then.

 

@Surfguy, I don't really think so. We are already in the waning light of American hegemony. I think it will be very hard for us to regain positions we give up now.

 

As Jason Garrett likes to say, it's a process. It could be some positions are never regained.

 

I think you are right, JuanValdez. I don't know anyone who thinks otherwise outside of the US bubble, and I think a multipolar world will be a better one to live in, frankly. Relatively speaking, the US in the role of a hegemon is not that old of a legacy, and I think post-WW2 ascendency into the world's only major power hasn't been healthy for the Constitution or the people governed by it. I realize that's heresy to people with unexamined American Exceptionalism, but the rest of the world hasn't been terribly thrilled with it.

The question I wonder is if the oligarchical empire can become a republic again.

 

Yet again another great post by Deji on Israel. I agree that the US hasn't done much for peace or been a fair dealer. This move just makes it official.