In the scope of next season...I'd say there might be a new face or two around the pen. That said, I honestly don't see why it isn't a fluid situation unless you have Mariano or Billy Wagner. Chapman. Someone born and bred and consistently effective at closing. It doesn't have to be so robotic. Someone might need rest. Someone might have it going. Ditch the archaic closer role thing (or get a really insanely good one) and use your eyes. Truly, I might be out of touch but it seems like a good cross section of our pitchers need a 3rd pitch. Are split fingers just not something people throw anymore? Fast ball, curve of some sort, change up of some sort. I feel like the antiquated one now. As for Giles, him not having the slider isn't as much of a story as his fastball being so weak. We've seen the reports about the balls and problems everyone is having with sliders. His fastball though, at 98 just seems dead. Lifeless, like it's 98 on the gun but it's not blowing anyone back. It doesn't move AT ALL. How can you throw it that hard and have zero action?
Hinch FINALLY wised up and realized NO MORE GILES. After last nights game where they had to utilize practically their entire bull pen it's pretty telling when Giles was never told to start warming up let alone be put in the game. It's also pretty revealing that the Giles supporters/apologists/excuse makers on here have finally realized that the dude has been flat out pathetic in the playoffs. Success in the regular season doesn't mean JACK S&/T!! It's gone from being concerned every time Hinch puts the ball in Giles hands to Hinch more then likely being ran out of town for even putting him in the game. The whole game last night when the crowd would look out to the bull pen (where I was sitting) to try and see who was warming up EVERYONE was saying,"IT BETTER NOT BE GILES". Anyone on here still "trust" Giles or want to refer to him as "nails"?
I wonder if the Astros will move closer to a true-tandem rotation next year? They've done it twice in the postseason with tremendous results and I think it's been a Luhnow itch for a while.
I'll never understand fans who revel in their team's failures... Here's what everyone is going to forget about Ken Giles' performance in this World Series...... he pitched a perfect bottom of the 9th in game 2 to send it to extra innings. Seager, Turner, Bellinger - 1, 2, 3. And who did Hinch ask Giles to retire in THE EXACT SAME SITUATION two nights later? Seager, Turner, Bellinger. Giles hasn't been good - but those are three of the toughest outs in baseball. EVERY pitcher would struggle to get through those guys once, let alone twice. These two teams are just STACKED offensively and unless you have an arsenal of pitches to keep them guessing/fooled........ I mean, NO ONE is getting anyone out. I think Giles will be back in the mix Tuesday. Hopefully, they don't have to go to the pen at all. But at this point, they need rested arms that can get outs. And if he DOES go to Giles: three outs. That's it. No more 6-out saves.
yeah. and it actually doesn't even have to be 3 outs. if he comes in just for 1 big out or 2. it could be big in contributing in a victory.
I am good with Giles, except for wild pitches. Looking at the series objectively it’s just tilted. If he ends up in the game I would not be upset at this point. I would prefer Keuchel or Morton, or Peacock. Or even Gregerson. But if Giles goes in I am good with whatever outcome there is. At first I thought it might be the Dodgers are just hitting the hard stuff he throws, but they’ve proven in the clutch they hit everything. So I’d just assume go with the hard stuff and see what happens if we don’t have a starter available like Keuchel.
A bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Every single above average bullpen pitcher during the season has been bad at one point or another... the heir apparent especially (Devo). Makes one appreciate Rivera that much more... what he was able to do, for as long as he was able to do it, may never be seen again ever. Teams with as much data, pitchfx breakdowns, analytic breakdown of when pitchers use certain pitches in different counts, and the overall heightened focus of batters in these playoffs make any repeated bullpen pitcher a ripe target for regression. I used to be of the camp to suggest that heightened playoff pressure and “clutchness” didn’t really exist. That over the long haul, numbers would still regress to the mean anyways. Well, you can’t convince me that the pressure of the moment doesn’t get to all these guys at some point. Or maybe the advanced scouting with analytical breakdowns of pitchers tendencies/location is just that much better. When the previously anointed best closer in baseball (Jansen) gives up runs in every game he pitches in the World Series... there’s something more to pitching in these sorts of games.
Hey Now, I think it's total BS you claiming that I "revel in their (Giles) failure" (or ANY other player). You show me ONE freakin post where I stated I was happy about Giles failing (or any other player)? I have said from the beginning of the year that I have concerns every single time Hinch puts the ball in his hands, HOWEVER I have been pulling for him the entire season as he's been our closer and if they were going to win the WS they were going to need him. Me posting the obvious (that Giles has underperformed in the playoffs) does NOT equate to me saying I hope he fails and for you to imply this again is total BS. Is it tough to get more then 3 outs hell yes. Unless you have your head up your ass it goes beyond this as he is struggling BIG TIME with his control. It's why he wasn't even asked to warm up last night in a game where practically every pitcher in both pens were used. WHY IS THAT HEY NOW????? If Giles is used from here on out I will most certainly question why but you can rest assured that I will be pulling for him because he is an Astro and I want him to succeed. There have been a few on here (and WE all know who they are) that have repeatedly come on here with the passive aggressive comments about Giles being "nails" when he has a good outing and how others on here (me included) are crazy for having ANY concerns about Giles. I mean how could we think this way as the dude is "nails". WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE NOW HEY NOW??? This has NEVER been about Giles and "reveling in him failing". It's been about some arrogant people here on clutchfans who think their way of thinking is THE only way to think and the rest of us....well we don't ****. That said, go Astros, go Giles (if he's given the ball) because all I care about is the 'Stros winning the WS. Just because someone points out a player struggling DOESN'T mean they want that player to be struggling. That is all. Done venting.
Combine this with the fact that over use and familiarity in a 7 game series tends to show any weakness in a particular pitcher. Regular season success is fine but it takes a different breed mentally to do it on the big stage when all eyes are on you. Repeated success against the best takes more than stuff, it takes ice water in the veins, specially when you do give up a walk or a hit
Credit has to be given to the other side as well... sometimes, hitters hit good pitches. Bregman himself stated that he was locked in on Janzen's cutter because of the amount of sliders he got the previous AB (one he hit for a HR). That seems like an over-simplified adjustment... and Janzen's cutter still caught a lot of the plate... but hitters make adjustments just like pitchers do. We usually do give our own pitchers too much blame, and our own hitters too much credit. Both sides get the heightened pressure, and need for ice water in the veins (whatever that means) to succeed in the playoffs.
No doubt about it. Credit needs to be given to offense on both sides for being selective and capitalizing in pressure moments. Mariano Rivera was who I was referring to, the guy seemingly never gave up the lead. Mental fortitude was probably his greatest attribute. I just don't see it with the bullpens on either side right now. Again credit to these hitters, I'm amazed at what we are witnessing.
Wasnt this most peoples argument for Giles throughout the year? 'He has to be in a high leverage situation' is what Ive been reading this whole year. Well, pressure dont get any higher. Giles just cant command his fastball and you just dont succeed very long if you dont have command in the MLB. I dont care how hard you throw or how good your slider is.
Well, I believe the Giles debate is settled. It feels good to be right. AND be ahead in the world series.
And, he was pretty damn good for most of the year. People are trying to paint the picture that he's been terrible no matter what... and that's simply not the case. Yes, he's been awful in the playoffs... but even then, there's been times where his ability to either finish the game, or get key outs, gets completely overlooked (game 4 vs Boston, game 1 vs NY). In the end, every single "elite" closer has been touched up this post-season in some way/shape/form. It tends to cause one to re-define exactly what to expect... or to find other potential reasons why its that much harder to succeed in the post-season vs any other game. Its quite obvious that regular season bullpen pitching metrics aren't translating... in the end, hot hands, unfamiliarity, and guys finding an extra gear (Peacock) are having more success than what has worked in the past.
I also credited Rivera... but even he blew a game 7 of the World Series... along with helping to blow a 3-0 lead in an ALCS 3 years later. But he still remains the standard... the likes of who we'll likely never see again in this fashion (not just because of how great he was, but also because he just happened to play for a team that was always in the post-season... thus he got more opportunities than any other elite closer before/after him).
Having said all that, most of our pen and even their pen hasnt been as wild as giles has been. The dude cant command his fastball and thats been the case more than a handful of times throughout the year. Hes an automatic walk machine and giving me game 4 vs Boston as a saving grace for him is laughable since 6 out of 7 appearances hes been in, hes gotten touched up.
You were also the one clamoring for Devo... so I'd be careful counting how many times you were "right". In the end, there are no winners in any of this... the Astros bullpen is an utter mess that has a collective group of arms who don't have what it takes to get key outs in the end of games. LMJ/Morton to the bullpen to the rescue.
I'm not giving anything a saving grace. He's been hot garbage... and yet he's still the only Astros regular bullpen pitcher who's been able to close a game this post-season. Not Devo, not Harris, not Musgrove, not Gregerson. Devo walking the leadoff man with a 3 run lead wasn't 'wild'? I understand many like his body language, but he's been just as suspect as anybody else (and significantly more regression from what everybody thought of him back in April). There is no magic formula anymore... these teams/lineups are too good to apparently apply formulaic reasoning. Jansen has given up runs in every single WS game... and he was the second coming of Rivera coming into this post-season. Its all laughable.
