On illegal immigration: "We will not accept it, because there's no reason why we should..."

You just don't get it. It has everything to do with the PRIORITIZATION that illegal immigration is the largest problem in the country when emperically illegal immigration has sloped downward for the past few years. Ask most Trump supporters a simple question: Has illegal immigration trended upwards or downwards the past 8 years.

Now answer to yourself why most of them will answer incorrectly. It's because of rhetoric. It's because Trump and his adminstration has made it a mission to strike fear into the hearts of his supporters that this problem is diverging into a catastrophic fall of the United States. The same concept with Muslims. He transplants a uniqually European problem due to geography to the US to strike fear to his supports that Muslim immigration is a problem sloping upward when emperically Muslim immigrants are more educated than the national average and commit less crime than the national average and that's due to our ALREADY implemented 'extreme vetting' that started after 9/11.

Pushing the narrative that the 'other' is the biggest problem in the US is what people are b****ing about with Trump. Look at his rallies. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM he speaks of anecdotes of violent Muslims or Mexicans. Why? Do you think he's informing his crowd? No. They already know these anecdotes. They already percieve the danger. The purpose is to rally them to hate. A constituency that has a clearly defined enemy is easier to pander to.

 

We are a country of laws and borders. Felon, identity thieving illegal aliens should be sent back and their home countries will just have to deal with them.

 

The US can't tell Mexico to ignore its immigration laws just like Mexico can't tell the US to start enforcing their immigration laws. Mexico enforces them partly because they want to protect their national identify, which is stupid, but mostly because they won't benefit from it like the US does.

The US made its open-labor market bed over its ENTIRE history. Good luck undoing it.

 

Actually Trump won so YOU don't get it. He campaigned on several key issues (including this one) and he won. Why wouldn't he try and keep his promises to his voters who elected him? i guess you're condition to be promised the moon but be given your uranus so I guess it's not your fault.

 

Actually Trump didn't win. There was wide spread voter fraud. He lost the popular vote by 20,000,000 votes and actually lost Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Texas.

We all know this, it is a commonly held fact.

 

Speaking of strawmen. You're saying people here like and approve of illegal immigration. I can't speak for everyone, but that's not what I've been reading from people. Turning off the taps to illegal immigration is fine, but there's thorny issues about (1) respecting people's civil rights while enforcing the law, (2) making wise decisions about the best ways to stop illegal immigration, (3) not using the rhetoric of illegal immigration to promulgate a much wider jingoist policy of limiting legal immigration (iow, policies to stop the 'white genocide') and (4) recognition that decades of non-enforcement has created a situation in which millions of people have become deeply weaved into American society but don't have papers and to simply deport them after so many years causes a lot of damage to them, their families, their communities, and the whole country. Until you stop making arguments about how illegal immigration is illegal and instead honestly address those issues, I can't take it seriously.

 

Yawn....

Illegal immigration has been flat for years but Trump knows his simple minded base loves this crap, along with scaring folks about scary central cities....

It's like it's the late 80s/90s with Trump's scare tactics.

 

You'll notice how none of the Trump supporters say anything about making employers liable.... its all about walls and deportation. Poor supporters don't even understand the issue.

 

I'm not trying to scare you. Nor am I trying to strawman your position (whether I succeed or not is another matter). But, to answer your rhetorical questions:

* Immigration law can be enforced in a civil manner; this is, in a way that respects civil rights. But, I'm wary that Trump's approach puts civil rights low on the priority list, which is one of the reasons I oppose his policies. I'll be happy to be proven wrong by Trump on this score. Not saying we can't have reform -- in fact we must have reform -- but I want this concern adequately addressed.

* Dei told me about white genocide. More generally though, from conservative citizens and from politicians, I've seen immigration reform proposals that seek to reduce the total number of immigrants or to change the mix in a way that would reduce the number of brown people (was it maybe ipaman that wanted to offset the number legal migrants accepted from Mexico and Central America by the number of illegal migrants who already came). There is an appropriate number of immigrants to allow, but the climate now seems to set that number quite low, motivated, I fear, by a desire to not be overrun by hispanics, Muslims, Indians, etc. Again, we can have reform, I just want us to guard our hearts on why we want what we want.

* Damage from illegal immigration? I'd like to understand better what damage that is. It seems to me that the reason we've looked the other way while the problem got bigger and bigger is because it was very good for us -- at least for government and for the people (i.e. corporations) that have the most power with government. A workforce that will take jobs in industries that have trouble attracting workers, who will work at a discount, for whom costs associated with safety, compliance, and employee satisfaction are optional. American shareholders and consumers have extracted billions of dollars in value by being bad at enforcing immigration law. And, that value was extracted from the illegal immigrant laborer. Now, I understand that there has been damage also to the resident worker (or a certain segment thereof) who had his bargaining power undermined and must take lower wages. That value went to the shareholder and the consumer as well. I don't deny it's a problem. But who really should pay?

 

I'm far from anything resembling a Trump supporter and don't support a stupid wall but there's nothing wrong with enforcing immigration law. Mexico is full of ****. Trump is a racist buffoon but it doesn't mean he's wrong on enforcing immigration law.

I support going after employers first. If illegals can't work, they won't come here and steal identities to try to work. Self-deportation is the way to go. I think the taxing of remittances back to Mexico for people who can't establish their legal status is also an interesting idea and certainly a way to pay for this stupid wall.

 

The problem is: illegals who have children that are American citizens. Gonna ship the parents out and leave the child here? Deport an American child?

 

Question doesn't mexico allow for dual citizenship will that fix the issue of what to do with the children that way if they choose to return there is no problems.

 

Donald Trump ... at every effing political rally.

 

Like the net positive economic "damage"?

 

I'm saying many children are not "returning" to some other country. They were born here and lived all their lives here. They are Americans. Then if their parents are illegals, what do you do?

 

That's why i asked the question will mexico except them and issue dual citizenship so if they are able to go they can and return to the USA without problems.

 

Are you saying we can punish children for the crimes of their parents? It's insane.