Of course Curry has the potential to be the GOAT. GOAT is a combination of championships, stats, personal accolades, and miscellaneous considerations (i.e. strength of teammates). In terms of GOAT resume weaknesses, Shaq, Olajuwon, and Kobe each have 1 MVP. Lebron only has 2 titles. Duncan doesn't have eye-popping stats. Curry passing them isn't as far fetched as you think. What're you basing this on?
breaking the regular season record along with winning a title and being even better fresh off an MVP year would easily top Lebron in 2013
Offensively, there isn't anything better than what Curry's doing this season, but Curry doesn't even come close to guys like Jordan, Duncan, Hakeem, or Lebron defensively. That's the main difference. Now...offense matters more than defense obviously, but I'm just sayin'.
In that respect, Curry is similar to Shaq. Shaq was never considered an elite defender, but his offense was so dominant that he was able to lead his teams to multiple championships and is widely considered a top 10 GOAT. And as great an offensive force as Shaq was, Curry is even greater.
Why, becuase you say so? Curry this year is operating at ultra-elite 32.8 PER rating. if he finished with it, it is the highest ever recorded. I don't know if he'll stay that way, but if he finishes over 31, he will join LeBron, Wilt, and Jordan as the only guys to finish over 31 in a single season. That is pretty elite company. And he's doing it as the big dog of one of the greatest teams of all time, arguably the greatest, as part of a historic run of NBA dominance. Not sure what else you want him to do to prove that he is worthy of mention with the greats? Grow 6 inches?
Not only that, but in the years he did it, Lebron averaged 38 mpg, 39 mpg, and 38 mpg. In Jordan's years, he averaged 40 mpg, 40 mpg, 39 mpg, and 37 mpg. This year, Curry is averaging 34 mpg.
LMAO What? There are at least TWO rule-changes discusseddue to his impact: - Dismissal of threepointers - Bring back handchecks And yet he somehow does hardly impact the game?
I'll try to answer all the posts at once. Curry does not have the two way impact of either of the players arguably not in the top 10 (Shaq, Dream, Kobe, Duncan and LeBron). No, what Curry is doing now is not more impactful than what LeBron did in 2013, when he led the team in points, boards, assists and was arguably the best defensive player in basketball. Have y'all forgotten there is more to the game then scoring? If you had to start a team from scratch you'd pick the guy that can score 30 a night on Curry's efficiency, that you have to hide defensively, over a guy that can score 27 a night on LeBron's efficiency (I think he shot 57% and 40% that season, going off memory) and be arguably the best defender in basketball. No GM picks guy 1. Curry has two crazy seasons (counting this one) and he is already 27. Every guy in the top 10 convo has around 14 seasons of elite basketball play. The only guys in the top 10 with less elite seasons than that ate Magic and Bird (both retired early). Curry has, at best, 3 currently. Give him another 7, which would take him to age 34, and he'd still only have 10. Curry is not going to catch them in dominant seasons and his best season so far isn't as dominant as theirs when you account for all of the contributions those players brought to the table. FYI, PER largely measures offensive performance. It doesn't account for something like LeBron being able to be one of the games best scorers while also being his teams primary playmaker and having to hold Paul George in one series and Tony Parker after that.
Shaq was still an excellent rim-protector, and because of his sheer size, he was a rebounding force as well. I don't think anybody would ever consider Shaq a liability on defense... whereas Curry is often hidden in order to mitigate his size/strength issues. But that's not unique to some of the greatest players ever... Bird/Magic were also hidden/protected when playing defense too.
He is easily being more impactful when he's about to lead his team to the greatest season of all time and another title along with back to back mvps. The impact that is above all is wins. There's no disputing that.
The Warriors have one of the best defenses in the NBA, it's time for us to give up the fig leaf that Curry is getting exploited mercilessly on defense or to pretend that he is somehow due south of Magic Johnson on defense. Let's also give up the fantasy that LeBron or Jordan committed to defense at 11 all the time. Absolutely right those guys judiciouly chose to turn it up when they had to - LeBron even more so than Jordan because he had no Pippen. LeBron's do-everythingness at his peak was pretty much unparalleled in the history of the game. That said - let's not exaggerate the impact of an individual defensive player. A great offensive player is simply worth more because he can change the game by himself; Chuck Hayes meanwhile can be doin' work 24/7 on defense and still have his team get embarrassed mightily if the other 4 players aren't in the right place, or he can run into a buzzsaw offensive player whom he just can't stop. There's a reason why all-NBA lists and MVPs are littered with offensive superstars, because having a James Harden adds a lot more wins to your team than having a Tony Allen. Curry's offensive performance alone is enough to establish that right now, he is at an all-time great level. Greatest shooter to have ever lived...easily.
So impactful that last season Iggy won Finals MVP and the NBA players gave Harden their MVP award. If you are arguing about how great the Golden State Warriors are, that's a different convo. I'm making individual player comparisons. And there isn't a player in the top 10 that I think would struggle for wins, even at a historic pace, playing under these rules with teammates like Curry has. If Dream can win a title with the cast he had in 94 I think he'd be just fine with the other GS warriors.
I didn't say he was being exploited. I said he does not have the two way impact that some, like a LeBron in 2013, did. There is no fantasy that both were impactful defenders and Curry is not. There is no fantasy that in 2013 LeBron was arguably the best defender in basketball and had primary defensive responsibility on top options from other teams, covering various positions. Something like that is extremely valuable, impactful, and not captured by a metric like PER. He was more impactful than Curry overall. Sure, if talking about peak play. The guys in the top 10 (rarified air) have 10-15 seasons of this type of play. And for most of them it was two way dominance. Curry is already 27 and has 3. If he were at an elite level earlier and had more time then maybe I could see him getting there eventually, but he's too old now.
why are you even mentioning last year. That's irrelevant to what were talking about and the season he is having this year. Hes clearly answered all the so called doubters on who the best player is. So individual player stats regardless if it translates to wins is what your standards are? If so, then you can have that because putting up numbers that directly translate into winning is the #1 measure of impact on a championship team is what really matters
You can capture defensive value with a number of metrics - Defensive win shares, DPBM etc. LeBron was above average, 2013 in those categories - curry is just average in them. Lebron was not elite/among the league leaders in either category...because he had to carry so much of the load on offense. I have no doubt that he would have been physically capable of being up there with Paul George, Marc Gasol etc in some of those categories ....but his offense would have suffered and overall the net benefit wasn't worth it. Overall on a net off/def basis, Curry and peak LeBron come out very similarly regardless of the metric (PER, winshares, bpm, whatever) so "more impactful overall" is difficult to say.
Jordan won DPOTY when Pippen only played 20mpg as a rookie..... You could watch any video on youtube of athletic prime MJ in the NBA or College and you will see him hustle harder than anyone on D as if he's a role player fighting to stay on the court. I've never seen any superstar including LeBron play like that on defense. Pippen of course was one of the GOAT defensive players ever due to the versatility and length with athleticism, but lets not pretend Wade was a bum. In the second 3 peat, Pip had 13.5 DWS. Wade had 13 DWS. Pip had 15 DWS the first 3peat. DWade was no slouch and they were all around an all time great Defensive team. Even those Cavs teams that people always say were garbage that LeBron carried alone were routinely top 5 defensive teams.
